Anchor Snubber

[trapezeartist]

Apologies if this has been asked and answered before, but the search facility on this forum is useless so I can't find anything similar. Apologies also if the question is naive.

I need to use a nylon snubber line on my anchor chain. The only strong points for securing the snubber are the bow cleats but of course they are well off-centre. Therefore if I run the snubber from a cleat, over the bow roller and down onto the chain it is going to lie at an extreme angle as it goes over the bow roller. Instead, could I run the snubber out through the forward fairlead in the toe-rail? This means that the anchor cable will be somewhat offset from the boat centreline. Will she lie OK like this? For info, the boat is a Bav 30, 4.5 tonnes, with a 12kg plough anchor on 8mm chain, no windlass.

I am planning to attach the snubber to the chain with a chain hook. Are the ordinary chain hooks secure enough? Or should I go for the shackle type, which is clearly more secure but also more cumbersome to attach and remove? The last thing I want is to find the hook drops off when I'm sleeping/away from the boat/just not in close attendance.

 

[JohnTH]

A long length of nylon with an eye spliced to each end.

Your eyes need to fit your port and starboard bow cleats.

Attach your chain hook / shackle to the middle.

You have spread the load, kept things symmetrical and fitted a snubber.

73s de

Johnth

 

[john_morris_uk]

One answer to your first question is 'try it and see'. If the boat lies OK then your have your answer. A couple of other points from me though. Why are you worried about the angle that the nylon line goes through as it passes over the bow roller? Chafe is the biggest problem and so long as there are no sharp edges and the roller is OK then I don't see what the problem is. Its the way that we set our snubbing line and I have never given it a thought. Our cleats are set back a distance from the bow roller - so I am not sure I can visualise your issue anyway?

Regarding the shackle/hook or the hook arrangement, we use a chain hook onto the chain and then lower a small bight of chain down to make sure that the weight of the chain comes onto the hook. Its never ever fallen off - and if it did, we would still be anchored by the chain anyway. A chain hook is fine and far less hassle to deploy. If you have to faff about putting shackles on, you are less likely to do it - therefore choose the simpler option. In this situation it will be fine.

 

[Bosun Higgs]

Of course it will work with the snubber rode going out through a fairlead. Will slightly alter the angle the boat lies at but not much. And I've never had the open hook type drop off - you do have the weight of chain hanging on the hook at a minimum.

The weak point of your system is the plough. Even the pukka CQR isnt that reliable at re-digging if the tide changes so I would be very suspicious of a pattern one as you have on the Bav which I doubt would have the lead filled tip.

I've dumped my CQR for a Rocna and I have found it a big improvement.

 

[charles_reed]

I use up to 10m of octoplait with a Wichart chain shackle on the end.

I run it through the starboard fairlead and back to the starboard mooring cleat.
It goes on after the anchor has been dug in.

Since starting using this 3 years ago I've not dragged in about 300 anchoring sessions including stern-to mooring in 44 knots of wind.

The boat no longer sails up to its chain and gives it a good shake as it used to, but lies quietly.

 

[charles_reed]

Of course it will work with the snubber rode going out through a fairlead. Will slightly alter the angle the boat lies at but not much. And I've never had the open hook type drop off - you do have the weight of chain hanging on the hook at a minimum.

The weak point of your system is the plough. Even the pukka CQR isnt that reliable at re-digging if the tide changes so I would be very suspicious of a pattern one as you have on the Bav which I doubt would have the lead filled tip.

I've dumped my CQR for a Rocna and I have found it a big improvement.

Having used a genuine CQR after a Sowester plough, I can vouch for the vastly inferior performance of the cast anchor.

However to correct your misapprehension, the weight is steel not lead.

The one weakness (apart from lack of anchoring technique in the user) is its reluctance to reset, it in fact wanders around with its flukes uppermost - hence the importance of getting it correctly set in the first place.

Anchors like the Manson and Rocna are more forgiving than the CQR of failings in the operator, superior in soft bottoms, but considerably inferior in shingle.

IMHO far more important than choice of anchor is choice of bottom.

 

[Ex-SolentBoy]

Apologies if this has been asked and answered before, but the search facility on this forum is useless so I can't find anything similar. Apologies also if the question is naive.

I need to use a nylon snubber line on my anchor chain. The only strong points for securing the snubber are the bow cleats but of course they are well off-centre. Therefore if I run the snubber from a cleat, over the bow roller and down onto the chain it is going to lie at an extreme angle as it goes over the bow roller. Instead, could I run the snubber out through the forward fairlead in the toe-rail? This means that the anchor cable will be somewhat offset from the boat centreline. Will she lie OK like this? For info, the boat is a Bav 30, 4.5 tonnes, with a 12kg plough anchor on 8mm chain, no windlass.

I am planning to attach the snubber to the chain with a chain hook. Are the ordinary chain hooks secure enough? Or should I go for the shackle type, which is clearly more secure but also more cumbersome to attach and remove? The last thing I want is to find the hook drops off when I'm sleeping/away from the boat/just not in close attendance.

We run ours out through a fairlead and have never noticed a significant difference in the way the boat lies.

Having said that, on several occasions the chain hook, which is properly sized, has simply come off the chain. I suspect this occurs then the chain goes slack, is hanging vertically, and swell raises the bow. As a result I check the snubber frequently.

 

[Salty John]

The lead from cleat to bow roller shouldn't be a problem as long as there is no chafe possible at the bowroller. Going through the bow fairlead should also not be a problem, the pull will not be hugely off centre on a long snubber.

I started out using a chain hook but soon switched to using a rolling hitch. Simple and secure.


A 12kg anchor on all chain is a brute without a windlass. A windlass would be on my list of must-haves.

 

[trapezeartist]

Thanks for all the suggestions. I think I'll start off with JohnTH's idea of securing to both bow cleats. Just one slight modification, I'll leave out the spliced eyes and just OXO the warp to the cleats. That way the lengths will be slightly different every time and should reduce chafe where the hook bears on the warp. I'll put a stop knot each side to stop the hook sliding off the warp.

The vote has gone fairly positively in favour of the hook (better than I thought) though I'm still slightly nervous of it as the absense of a windlass means that I don't have a fall-back position. I guess I'll just have to make the bight of chain a generous one, even though that "wastes" some chain length.

To clarify, the snubber would have to turn about 30 deg at the bow roller to go across to the cleat, so it would be insecure on the roller and would chafe on the flange.

 

[Salty John]

You could always make the bridle on deck, between the two bow cleats and then run straight over the bow roller.
It worries me a little that you are so concerned about losing the snubber - the fall back position should be the secured chain. The snubber will stop clattering on the bow roller and, perhaps, provide some stretch but it shouldn't be the means by which you secure the boat. Not with a chain hook, anyway. The chain should be secured to a cleat or, at least, a chain stopper of some sort fastened securely to the deck. You can get pin types, or pawl types; I prefer the latter.
The final fallback is, of course, the bitter end secured in the chain locker. The preferred method is to use a length of nylon line secured in the locker (even if only to a timber plank too long to get through the hawse pipe) and long enough to bring on deck so you can cut it if you need to ditch the anchor in a hurry.

 

[Bosun Higgs]

However to correct your misapprehension, the weight is steel not lead.

IMHO far more important than choice of anchor is choice of bottom.

Are you sure. I have heard many times that the tip fabrication on a CQR is lead filled ( see this) though I wouldnt be surprised if that had fallen foul of a Lewmar "improvement" in the name of costs. Either way over 20 years use I have found it hit or miss in terms of biting the first time in both pebbles , sand and even mud. The Rocna in contrast has a 100% success rate so far

Got to agree with your last sentence

 

[Dockhead]

In lieu of a chain hook or shackle, might I suggest that you simply tie the snubber onto the chain with a rolling hitch. It can't fall off, can't damage your bow roller or chain stopped in case you inadvertantly raise it to far, doesn't degrade the galvanising on your chain, holds supremely well on chain, and no cost or installation. Takes just a second to tie. I can't for the life of me understand why anyone thinks he needs hardware there.


On anchor choice, +1 on what has been said. You greatly reduce your risk of dragging by using a modern anchor -- Rocna, Manson, Spade. Really noticeable difference.

 

[Dockhead]

On configuration of your snubber -- just tie it off on a bow cleat and lead it through a dockline fairlead. It should NOT be lead through your bow roller. Don't worry that it's off centre -- your boat will probably lie better to her anchor with the vector of pull off centre. No need for a bridle. To prevent chafe, run the snubber through a foot or so of garden hose and position that in the fairlead. You can also tie off the snubber at different places to even out the wear.

Note that the snubber should be a plain length of 3-strand nylon, with no loops or hooks. A loop will make the snubber bear on the same place all the time and chafe it. A hook is just unnecessary and creates risk of unhooking (as argued above).

 

[DevonMark]

Dockhead is right on two counts:

1. Just use a rolling hitch - cheaper, simpler, safer and secure.

2. The boat may well lie better if the snubber goes through the fairlead. Our boat (a pilothouse) has a tendency to swing around a lot if the snubber is running over the bow roller. However, with the snubber on one side she lies much quieter.

 

[john_morris_uk]

On configuration of your snubber -- just tie it off on a bow cleat and lead it through a dockline fairlead. Don't worry that it's off centre -- your boat will probably lie better to her anchor with the vector of pull off centre. No need for a bridle. To prevent chafe, run the snubber through a foot or so of garden hose and position that in the fairlead. You can also tie off the snubber at different places to even out the wear.

Note that the snubber should be a plain length of 3-strand nylon, with no loops or hooks. A loop will make the snubber bear on the same place all the time and chafe it. A hook is just unnecessary and creates risk of unhooking (as argued above).

It should NOT be lead through your bow roller. Why are you so adamant on this point? I love it when people say this is the way this MUST be done - when actually its a question of seamanship and being open minded to what might work better or not? Why be so certain in your reply? Who knows whether the boat will lie better through the fairlead. Try it and see might be a better suggestion?

My garden hose wouldn't accept the line that I use for a snubber. Its also been suggested that some plastic hoses cause more chafe than they prevent...