Anchor metal appearance

[Roberto]

"Welding done properly is perfectly acceptable and is common on many components that are far more stressed than an anchor shank." As Roberto has covered the manufacturer's plate we do not know who made it.

thanks Cliff,

indeed I hid the name of the anchor as with regard to my original question it is irrelevant. It's a production anchor, bought new, not a copy nor a knockoff.

If the visible stain is a weld, then in terms of anchor behaviour I may say it is a properly made weld

 

[cliff]

thanks Cliff,

indeed I hid the name of the anchor as with regard to my original question it is irrelevant. It's a production anchor, bought new, not a copy nor a knockoff.

If the visible stain is a weld, then in terms of anchor behaviour I may say it is a properly made weld

Could be an artefact from the HDG - I have seen similar on structural steel coming from boltholes and running what would be vertically when the item was removed from the bath.
I would not worry about it - think of all the welds in your anchor chain and between the shank and flukes - sleep easy

 

[afterpegassus]

If the feature was a weld I would expect the weld cap to be proud of the parent metal. This does not seem to be the case. As BOB said it is most likely a stain from, possibly, a shackle, or where a shackle has worn the zinc in the hole

 

[J Neeves]

Yep, I am only a Metallurgist with 35 years experience in fabrication / welding in the Oil, Gas and Power Generation industries so obviously don't have sufficient knowledge to comment.
As Viv has already pointed out "Welding done properly is perfectly acceptable and is common on many components that are far more stressed than an anchor shank." As Roberto has covered the manufacturer's plate we do not know who made it.

Cliff as you did not mention in your earlier post that you had in depth experience one is not to know, there was no insult intended - my comment was not meant to offend.

The internet is full of armchair exerts - one needs to be cautious.

Both you and Vyv have pointed out that welds are fine, if done properly - if this is a weld then as mentioned its the only such weld ever identified in this location and being unusual might have had an unusual welder putting it together - one needs to be cautious. But as Roberto has used the anchor without issue - then hopefully it will remain sound (if it is a weld) for the rest of the life of the anchor.

Roberto did say the anchor was well used - and a well used anchor is usually polished clean of any rust. The identification of the 'mark' as a weld, given any rust would be worn off - seems logical - even if eventually found to be incorrect (and just a rust stain).

Jonathan

 

[TradewindSailor]

Cliff ... you make a big noise and make insulting comments.

I am an engineer. I would not expect any engineer to design an anchor shank with a weld in this position.

Given your knowledge of metallurgy and welding would you say that it was economically viable to weld a shank with a quality assured weld .... rather than using a single piece of metal? As an engineer I would never design in irregularities where done are needed.

Read my original comment .... I stand by it whatever your bluster.

 

[charles_reed]

Interesting - at first I jumped to the conclusion that it was probably a weld - but I fail to see why some should become hysteric about welded shanks, after all the majority of "new age" anchors have welded shanks.
The only problem, surely, is margin embrittlement of heat-treated steels and that is easily controlled in a proper machine shop. Perhaps some have only experienced amateur welders?
As it isn't a weld the problem does not exist.

 

[NormanS]

Are these stains vertical when the anchor is stowed?

I have a fisherman anchor, fabricated from plate. The flukes are welded onto the shank.

 

[J Neeves]

For those with welding expertise.

When I see a weld, gas pipe, chain link or joint between shank and fluke of an anchor I see a fillet of weld standing proud of the natural surface. So the weld of the chain link is bigger than the diameter of the wire, the weld on a gas pipe looks like a 'extra thickness of ring' and the joint between fluke and shank looks like a fillet of silicon smoothed by hand, the gas pipe is never smooth, the chain link looks fatter at the joint and the fluke/shank weld always has more weld than a simple butt welded joint.

Ignoring that this is not a weld, but some apparition - why was no comment passed, before doubts were raised about it being a weld, that if it was a weld it had been ground smooth and if a smooth weld is perfectly and technically acceptable why do other welds always stand proud?

I appreciate I am simply showing my ignorance.

 

[usernamenotvalid]

Welds often do stand proud of the parent metal until... someone flattens it off with a grinder. I don't think it was a weld because I wouldn't want to be burning out drill bits drilling through a weld every time I made an anchor. I can see how "nesting" parts cut by plasma/laser/oxy is economical but you would quickly lose any savings by then having to weld it back together. Weld one side, turn it over weld the other side, Belt it flat with a big hammer, let it cool a bit, grind both sides flush. Nah.
Edit: that's without any weld prep time.

 

[cliff]

If the feature was a weld I would expect the weld cap to be proud of the parent metal. This does not seem to be the case. As BOB said it is most likely a stain from, possibly, a shackle, or where a shackle has worn the zinc in the hole

If welded by an amateur - yes, or there again it may have been ground off

 

[cliff]

For those with welding expertise.

When I see a weld, gas pipe, chain link or joint between shank and fluke of an anchor I see a fillet of weld standing proud of the natural surface. So the weld of the chain link is bigger than the diameter of the wire, the weld on a gas pipe looks like a 'extra thickness of ring' and the joint between fluke and shank looks like a fillet of silicon smoothed by hand, the gas pipe is never smooth, the chain link looks fatter at the joint and the fluke/shank weld always has more weld than a simple butt welded joint.

Ignoring that this is not a weld, but some apparition - why was no comment passed, before doubts were raised about it being a weld, that if it was a weld it had been ground smooth and if a smooth weld is perfectly and technically acceptable why do other welds always stand proud?

I appreciate I am simply showing my ignorance.

Cost of manpower and consumables to grind flush. Trick is to add just sufficient filler or do just sufficient upsetting (chain) to achieve a good weld stronger than the base metal. Filler material (welding rods / wire etc) cost money and the cost of a heavily reinforced cap can be substantial.

 

[J Neeves]

Thanks Cliff.

Jonathan

 

[Birdseye]

Welding the shank isnt good manufacturing practice but you dont need a metallurgist to tell you that. Simply someone who has run a factory. Steel production is so automated that the chances of a cock up are tiny. Individual welding is not so automated and workers make mistakes / cut corners / skive etc.I even had one coded welder write in weld deposit something scurrilous about the foreman. Discovered by a customer on a building site. A quick handwriting test later and he was fired.

 

[TQA]

Slight hijack here.

I am presuming that it is a Rocna and was wondering how the galvanizing is standing up. Although the pictures are good there is something odd about the finish to the anchor.

 

[vyv_cox]

I am presuming that it is a Rocna and was wondering how the galvanizing is standing up. Although the pictures are good there is something odd about the finish to the anchor.

If it is a Rocna and if it is a weld you have opened a can of worms! Rocna shanks are cut by water jet in order to preserve the properties of the special steel from hot cutting. Welding this steel would require a complete heat treatment to recover its properties.

 

[Stork_III]

If it is a Rocna and if it is a weld you have opened a can of worms! Rocna shanks are cut by water jet in order to preserve the properties of the special steel from hot cutting. Welding this steel would require a complete heat treatment to recover its properties.

If "special " steel was actually used.

 

[afterpegassus]

If welded by an amateur - yes

Cliff,
you do your credibility no good with sweeping statements like this. I've only been in the Oil & Gas industry this last 18 years and would say that 95% of pipe, vessel and structural welds were capped; and if these were done by amateurs then they were very good amateurs to pass QA/QC.

 

[cliff]

Cliff,
you do your credibility no good with sweeping statements like this. I've only been in the Oil & Gas industry this last 18 years and would say that 95% of pipe, vessel and structural welds were capped; and if these were done by amateurs then they were very good amateurs to pass QA/QC.

If you are going to quote me do it in full

If welded by an amateur - yes, or there again it may have been ground off

Puts a different perspective on things. A pro can lay in a capping bead with little reinforcement an amateur will not be able to do so.

 

[Birdseye]

Cliff,
you do your credibility no good with sweeping statements like this. I've only been in the Oil & Gas industry this last 18 years and would say that 95% of pipe, vessel and structural welds were capped; and if these were done by amateurs then they were very good amateurs to pass QA/QC.

Bet you BP arent so sure.

 

[afterpegassus]

Quote Originally Posted by afterpegassus

"If the feature was a weld I would expect the weld cap to be proud of the parent metal. This does not seem to be the case. As BOB said it is most likely a stain from, possibly, a shackle, or where a shackle has worn the zinc in the hole"

If welded by an amateur - yes, or there again it may have been ground off

If you are going to quote me do it in full
Puts a different perspective on things. A pro can lay in a capping bead with little reinforcement an amateur will not be able to do so.

Your assertion quite clearly was that only an amateur would leave a cap proud, full quote or not, and if your knowledge is as extensive as you say it is then you should know that is nonsense