Anchor chain/locker

[coopec]

I hauled the 80m of anchor chain up into the yacht today by hand. (The yacht is on the hard)
I was worried about the room the chain would take up in the locker but I needn't have worried.

When I was directing the chain down the "Chain pipe" (which is 3" nylon pipe) it sometimes "stuck" and other time flowed like an avalanche. I was also a bit concerned the chain didn't fall to the lowest part of the locker without a bit of coaxing.

But then wet anchor chain would behave quite a bit differently? (Is that wishful thinking?)

 

[Little Dorrit]

Didn't properly read the op.

 

[Neeves]

Its a yacht, wishful thinking is for dreamers

Get a bit of rust on the chain - it will be worse.

I cannot believe you are going to retreive your rode + anchor by hand.

Now why did you not load the chain using the windlass - that's what its for. If you load with the windlass there will be no twists in the chain. If you have a windlass I'd drop all the chain out and start again - its daylight still in Perth, you can do it now and tell us if its any better.

I'm assuming the chain was directed by the hawse, nylon, pipe - the aim of the pipe is wrong.

Now what size chain are you using (and refresh my memory how big is the yacht)?

Jonathan

 

[Tranona]

As Jonathan says you will find it easier if you use the windlass as the rate of fall will be more consistent so minimising the chance of links capsizing. The key is what happens at the bottom end where it leaves the pipe and goes into the locker. If a pile starts here then it spreads up the pipe, so having a deflector that directs the chain to the deepest part of the locker may be helpful. choosing the right size chain helps - guess you have 10mm which would be normal for your size boat, any bigger will only make the problem worse.

 

[coopec]

As Jonathan says you will find it easier if you use the windlass as the rate of fall will be more consistent so minimising the chance of links capsizing. The key is what happens at the bottom end where it leaves the pipe and goes into the locker. If a pile starts here then it spreads up the pipe, so having a deflector that directs the chain to the deepest part of the locker may be helpful. choosing the right size chain helps - guess you have 10mm which would be normal for your size boat, any bigger will only make the problem worse.

Yes I could have got twists which wouldn't help.
It is 10mm chain (43ft yacht)

I've decided to leave all the high amperage electrical work to the experts. (I've laid the cable and bought all the circuit breakers, VSR, isolation switches etc so he's ready to go)

I thought I'd winch it in by hand but wasn't sure how to work the clutch. (But I've now found the manual)

Thanks for your advice

 

[coopec]

Its a yacht, wishful thinking is for dreamers

Get a bit of rust on the chain - it will be worse.

I cannot believe you are going to retreive your rode + anchor by hand.

Now why did you not load the chain using the windlass - that's what its for. If you load with the windlass there will be no twists in the chain. If you have a windlass I'd drop all the chain out and start again - its daylight still in Perth, you can do it now and tell us if its any better.

I'm assuming the chain was directed by the hawse, nylon, pipe - the aim of the pipe is wrong.

Now what size chain are you using (and refresh my memory how big is the yacht)?

Jonathan

Jon

I have a Muir VRC 1250 24V but it hasn't been connected up as yet.

I have a contractor coming with his mini excavator to do work under the yacht so the haulage contractor can move the yacht. I wanted to get the chain out of the way before the rains came.

If the aim of the chain pipe is wrong I really don't have any alternatives open to me?

I guess (as you have pointed out) twists aren't going to help.

 

[Neeves]

Jon

I have a Muir VRC 1250 24V but it hasn't been connected up as yet.

I have a contractor coming with his mini excavator to do work under the yacht so the haulage contractor can move the yacht. I wanted to get the chain out of the way before the rains came.

If the aim of the chain pipe is wrong I really don't have any alternatives open to me?

I guess (as you have pointed out) twists aren't going to help.

The aim of the pipe might be fine but when you hand retreive it is very difficult to miss a twist in the chain and it might be twists, I believe the technical term is 'hockles' , that might cause the interruption of Newton's predictions (that gravity will pack the chain for you). The windlass will also cough if there are twists - but you can 'unhockle' them and know that the chain in the locker is hockle free. You problem now is there may be hockles and the chain might not deploy freely. I strongly recommend that when the windlass is installed you drop all the chain and re-pack using the windlass - you want the chain to run freely and the only sure way is either very hard work - or run through the windlass - hackles will not pass through the gypsy!

If you had asked me to make you a chain - it would have been cheaper than you can buy and would have been so light you could have kept it at home and carried it to the yacht later . However I have no idea how much it would cost to send chain across a very large island

Jonathan

 

[geem]

I hauled the 80m of anchor chain up into the yacht today by hand. (The yacht is on the hard)
I was worried about the room the chain would take up in the locker but I needn't have worried.

When I was directing the chain down the "Chain pipe" (which is 3" nylon pipe) it sometimes "stuck" and other time flowed like an avalanche. I was also a bit concerned the chain didn't fall to the lowest part of the locker without a bit of coaxing.

But then wet anchor chain would behave quite a bit differently? (Is that wishful thinking?)

View attachment 133134

Looking at your picture I can see that your chain pipe sends the chain through the deck locker to the chain locker below. The chain locker looks a little small for such a lot of chain. We use 60m and have not often needed more scope. We do have another 50m of anchorplait permanently fixed to the chain in the locker above. Our arrangement is very similar to yours.
When the chain drops in to the chain locker it builds up in a pyramid shape. There needs to be enough hieght in the locker to allow this to happen before the pyramid grows to the hieght of the chain pipe.
Another thought. Your chain locker is below the waterline. How do you drain any water from this locker? We have a 3/4" bulkhead fitting that takes a pipe through to the main bilge sump.

 

[Neeves]

You have not mentioned the size of chain?

Jonathan

 

[pandos]

It's not unheard of for the pile of chain in the locker to need a helping hand as the chain is taken in.

Even when recovered with the windlass.

I usually poke it with a piece of wood which sits in the locker when not in use.

 

[geem]

It's not unheard of for the pile of chain in the locker to need a helping hand as the chain is taken in.

I usually poke it with a piece of wood which sits in the locker when not in use.

Apologies but I always think of this as failure of design. Anchor chain should not need human intervention. It should just go in to the locker and come out of the locker. Job done. How hard can it be to to design a space to do this?

 

[coopec]

Looking at your picture I can see that your chain pipe sends the chain through the deck locker to the chain locker below. The chain locker looks a little small for such a lot of chain. We use 60m and have not often needed more scope. We do have another 50m of anchorplait permanently fixed to the chain in the locker above. Our arrangement is very similar to yours.
When the chain drops in to the chain locker it builds up in a pyramid shape. There needs to be enough hieght in the locker to allow this to happen before the pyramid grows to the hieght of the chain pipe.
Another thought. Your chain locker is below the waterline. How do you drain any water from this locker? We have a 3/4" bulkhead fitting that takes a pipe through to the main bilge sump.

I like that!

The thought had crossed my mind that there could be too much chain for the anchor locker so I could have "50m of anchorplait permanently fixed to the chain in the locker above".

AND I have a drain pipe from the chain locker to the to a bilge sump. Thanks for your advice.

 

[Neeves]

Apologies but I always think of this as failure of design. Anchor chain should not need human intervention. It should just go in to the locker and come out of the locker. Job done. How hard can it be to to design a space to do this?

Very difficult - most yacht designers (of popular models) fail miserably

But chain/anchor/bow lockers are the minuscule space left over when all the accomodation has been squeezed in - they are not designed - its just the space left over in which the owner can sensibly use to live in. Its not helped when the yachts are then equipped with chain bigger than necessary (that takes up more space) and needs a bigger and more expensive windlass, heavier duty cable and maybe over taxes the batteries (unless you run the engine).

In Coopec's case - a picture or 2 might have helped. In his situation it will be difficult to poke the tower with a stick as it is unlikely he can address the tower from the deck and has need to burrow down in the forepeak.

But he made no mention of towering and I concluded that it was some design fault of the tube and the chain hockling that might be the issue as he seemed to say it was an intermittent problem (without his need to intervene) - but there was a dearth of information.

Now of course Coopec has the chain and the windlass and is unlikely to buy a new chain and new gypsy. But from memory he was aiming to sail north to seas full of coral and then textile becomes an issue in a rode and he will only want to use rope in extreme cases.

Jonathan

 

[coopec]

It's not unheard of for the pile of chain in the locker to need a helping hand as the chain is taken in.

Even when recovered with the windlass.

I usually poke it with a piece of wood which sits in the locker when not in use.

Yes I've often read that the chain may need a helping hand as the chain is taken in but that would be very easy as I've installed a PVC 15in. X 15in. hatch under a "V" berth mattress to give access to the chain. (Maybe it is a fault in the design of the yacht but how can I overcome that?)

 

[pandos]

Apologies but I always think of this as failure of design. Anchor chain should not need human intervention. It should just go in to the locker and come out of the locker. Job done. How hard can it be to to design a space to do this?

Failure of design or not, it is what it is....

I am not going to change the deck layout that Hallberg Rassy put together 40 years ago...

I often contemplate some device to prevent it and I have read of people using "cones".

To sort the problem would probably require moving the bulkhead 12inches aft..which would have a knock on effect on the accomodations..

Giving it a poke when recovering is not really a big deal .

 

[coopec]

Failure of design or not, it is what it is....

I am not going to change the deck layout that Hallberg Rassy put together 40 years ago...

I often contemplate some device to prevent it and I have read of people using "cones".

To sort the problem would probably require moving the bulkhead 12inches aft..which would have a knock on effect on the accomodations..

Giving it a poke when recovering is not really a big deal .

I've often thought that every yacht design is a compromise and have accepted the limitation of the chain locker. (I've also compared it to the Hallberg Rassy chain locker design)

 

[Neeves]

Failure of design or not, it is what it is....



I often contemplate some device to prevent it and I have read of people using "cones".


Giving it a poke when recovering is not really a big deal .

I have also read of people using cones, traffic cones or those cones they seem to use for football practice. I have tried it and think it a waste of time (and they take up fair amount of space). In order to work the apex of the cone needs to sit under the hawse pipe, fairly accurately, and this demands a flat locker base. The cone needs to be firmly attached - throwing a few tens of kilos at a plastic cone will move the cone.

It is what it is - and a stick seems to be the best remedy, hopefully your tower of chain is accessible from the deck and adjacent to the windlass. Having to dodge down to the forepeak and prod around with a stick is really not very efficient (when you are in a hurry).

In Coopec's case he might be able to alter the feed tube to better effect. Drain holes or drainage of the locker in which the chain is housed needs careful attention as leaving a small puddle in the bottom of the locker means that the chain will inevitably be always damp and some of the chain will be in the water. It merits thought that lifting the locker base by inserting a grate is advantageous - as it keeps the chain out of the puddle and better allows the chain to air.

This a new yacht at a boat show. I don't know why the locker is not draining, the drain hole might be blocked or the locker is poorly designed. The water looks as if it has been there for some time. But really an awful example of many things - but would you buy a yacht from this distributor - the lack of attention to detail is appalling and the wiring looks very average. Having water in chain lockers is not unusual - no wonder chains corrode.



Jonathan

 

[coopec]

Jon

The drain pipe on my chain locker is at the very bottom of the locker (just like the drain hole of a kitchen sink)

There is little scope"to alter the feed tube to better effect".

I've decided not to try to solve problems that maybe aren't there. I'm going to try it in practice and if there is a problem I'll work from there.

At present the chain has to slide of Woven Rovings. Maybe If I laid CSM on the locker walls it would be smoother and allow the chain to slide?

 

[Neeves]

Jon

The drain pipe on my chain locker is at the very bottom of the locker (just like the drain hole of a kitchen sink)

There is little scope"to alter the feed tube to better effect".

I've decided not to try to solve problems that maybe aren't there. I'm going to try it in practice and if there is a problem I'll work from there.

At present the chain has to slide of Woven Rovings. Maybe If I laid CSM on the locker walls it would be smoother and allow the chain to slide?

Few drain holes on production yachts are at the 'absolute' bottom - you are lucky. I agree - find something else to worry about and try it with the windlass (good choice of kit). I'd have said that unless the locker walls are dangerously rough then the chain should fall or slide easily.

If your chain is new it will have bright shiny zinc on the surface - zink is soft (like lead is soft) and there can be a tendency for the chain to stick. Being soft the zinc soon wears off and you will have alloy underneath (alloy of Zn and Fe) - this alloy is hard, harder than the underlying steel. With use the alloy will polish and the chain slide more easily. If your chain is old it may have small corrosion patches, small enough for you not to notice - again these will wear off with use but they too stop the chain from sliding. The outer zinc coating can also corrode if the locker is damp - you will see it as a white powder - imaginatively called white rust (google 'white rust'). You pay for the zinc coating - its worth keeping the chain dry (hence my comments on drain holes), if you wash down the decks with fresh water stick the hose in the locker and wash the salt off the chain and leave the hatch, lid of the locker ajar to allow an airflow - anything to try to dry chain and locker (make sure your close it at sea!!). Any water in the locker will evaporate (especially in Perth ) but condense on the locker walls - ensuring your chain is constantly damp. If you decide on a mixed rode - keep the textile portion separate from the chain as the rope will hold water (evaporation - damp chain etc etc).

I know I sound like an old woman or old man, no disrespect to older women, but I see so many rusty chain - that need not be - and I see no reason for people to buy new chain unnecessarily.

Talking of locker hatches - if your chain locker drains to the bilges and the lid is not water tight then your bilge pump will constantly be powering on and off as you take water over the bow..... A big sea will find its way - everywhere.

Jonathan

 

[coopec]

Jon

In a big sea how do you stop water flowing down the chain pipe? Any thoughts?

I think Alan Lucas (Yachtsman/Author) used to somehow attach a tennis ball to the end of the chain and use that as a plug.

Plug that Chain-pipe - Practical Sailor