An Attempt to board a Yacht off Portugal

[sailaboutvic]

There is a sort of decalogue written by Brazilian police -hardly anyone in the world with the experience they have with armed assault by common people, violent robbery, hostage situations in buses bars etc-; they are often in very dangerous situations and use their guns with a looooot more speed than in most other places of the world (maybe US excepted), yet they say never ever have guns. I have these "rules" somewhere: summing up, you are being attacked by highly stressed people, possibly on drugs, try to make it the quickest possible assault for them, the sooner they get what they want the sooner they go away. Among other advices, should they find a gun hidden somewhere, say the chart table, you are basically dead in a split second.

What and one must consider this ,
what if it's your boat they want , maybe for people smuggling, I not so sure they be taken you along for the ride .

I totally in agreement never carry a gun well not unless your willing to use it and use it no question ask , I not so sure like in this case I be holding my hands up and do nothing , if this couple did that , they may not be here to tell their story .

 

[capnsensible]

Got to say Portsmouth Plod could safe a lot of money if it gave up the Heckler & Kochs, Glocks, holographic sights, body armour and whatnot in favour of some peashooters and spearguns.

Leigh Park not changed much then?

 

[capnsensible]

Up to a few years ago drug running was going on completely unchecked between Gibralter and Spain,since the change of government in Spain the police have been much more active in the area,it’s an area of high unemployment and I have. Feeling authorities were turning a blind eye to the nerferious activity,maybe police activity is pushing the bad men in to other money earning schemes?

Still is rife. Check out Spanish press for El Zabal Barrios and the drug lords mansions.....

 

[PlanB]

I would have thought that provided the pirates continue to use ribs, a powerful air rifle with would suffice. My Son's will shoot clean through 10mm wood and would be legal on a boat, I assume. I don't think that PVC/Hypalon would pose a problem?

Richard

Air rifles without a licence are illegal in Spain.

 

[Jamie Dundee]

Air rifles without a licence are illegal in Spain.

Same in the IOM, and Scotland I think.

 

[Sea-Fever]

Even in the Solent, we were approached by a fast moving black rib with some strapping looking Caribbean guys dressed in black T shirts. They started shouting at us but we were relieved when we heard the shouts were friendly, they held out a net on a stick with free samples of Mount Gay rum and T shirts (same as they were wearing) promoting the Barbados Sailing Week

I can't imagine what went through your mind to believe they were a piratical threat? Not the usual state of affairs in that area ll

“They sent a coast guard helicopter. "He was there ten minutes later and immediately went down on the attackers," reports Fricke.”

Is this a new anti terrorist tactic?

Basically a distraction technique.

 

[skipmac]

Good lord I can't believe it. Now the British are starting gun threads on boating forums like American gun nuts.

Now that I got that off my chest, maybe a few relevant comments.

First I grew up in the southern US and was hunting and shooting game before I started school. In high school I was a competitive shooter and captain of the rifle team. Later when I started cruising the Bahamas and Caribbean during the peak years of the war between the Cuban and Colombian cocaine cowboys I would usually sail with a rifle or shotgun onboard (no more). Later I was friends and dove with a guy that was a member of the US Special Forces so trained in pretty much everything. Also had a couple of cousins in the military, one who did anti terrorist/smuggling diving security in US ports and had a lot to say on the subject. So I think I do have the background to contribute something on the subject.

One comment based on personal experience. Shooting off a moving boat is much, much harder than one would think. My only attempt at shooting from a moving boat was a dismal failure. Relatively calm day, 2-3' swells from a 34' monohull. We tossed a beer bottle (empty of course) off the boat and took pot shots with a .223 caliber rifle. Even 40-50' away I seldom hit closer than 3'. 100' away it was difficult to hit closer than 20'. Maybe someone trained to shoot from a moving platform or from a more stable cat it might be better. I can confirm that a powerful air gun will easily puncture a standard PVC or Hypalon RIB so trying to hole a RIB trying to board attackers at your transom could work. The good ones have as much power as a .22 rifle. However the hole made by anything smaller than a shotgun would take a few minutes to deflate the RIB leaving the attackers ample time to board plus would probably annoy them a good bit in the process. By the way, flare guns are even more difficult to shoot accurately and in most situations are all but worthless and in most countries I researched, flare guns, jspear guns, air rifles, bows (especially cross bows) and in some cases even sling shots are illegal and considered in the same class as a regular gun.

As to whether one should or should not resist, good question, If one looks just at the statistics, it is more likely to result in violence if one resists or fights the attackers (as noted like the case of Peter Blake). However that does not address specific situation and specific attackers. It is quite possible that the attackers plan to kill all on board regardless in which case there is nothing to lose in resisting. The big question is knowing when to resist and when to surrender and I don't think that is something that can be knowable.

My current philosophy is to just avoid any high or even moderate risk areas. Too many other places to cruise that are safer. But one can encounter criminals anywhere, anytime so onboard security should not be ignored. Another suggestion, rig metal, lockable from insider, closures for the companionway and any other open access location.

 

[Sea-Fever]

Self defense unless you have had some training or have been in the armed services means you don’t full have the killer instinct to follow through

I dont think that's true. Some people go nuts straight away in a situation, some people don't. Training may assist you in making the correct assessment of your chances but I dont think it necessarily installs an innate killer instinct....might give you a couple of skills but action always beats reaction as they say....

 

[Jamie Dundee]

I can hit a clay pigeon at 40yds with a 12g, I’m fairly sure I could hit a RIB at 20’. Possibly more legally I’m also pretty sure I could chuck a couple of lit red hand flares into a RIB which was close enough to fend off with a boat hook.

 

[laika]

Despite having "will it just p**s them off and they'll catch me anyway" concerns, I've wondered whether a little polypropylene netting dropped discreetly over the side as the rib gets close might at least buy a little time. If they *do* catch you you can always appear to sympathise about how awful the plastic in the oceans is these days.

 

[Wansworth]

I dont think that's true. Some people go nuts straight away in a situation, some people don't. Training may assist you in making the correct assessment of your chances but I dont think it necessarily installs an innate killer instinct....might give you a couple of skills but action always beats reaction as they say....

Peter Blake......

 

[cherod]

There is no 'measured response'. Stay away from dodgy places, give up your stuff to save your crews lives if you get unlucky. You will not repel determined criminals. Especially drugged ones. There is massive evidence to support this. Argue all you like, but it's the way of the world, sadly.

and how would you suggest getting your boat from Gib to the Algarve ?

 

[GHA]

I can hit a clay pigeon at 40yds with a 12g, I’m fairly sure I could hit a RIB at 20’. Possibly more legally I’m also pretty sure I could chuck a couple of lit red hand flares into a RIB which was close enough to fend off with a boat hook.

Much better to stay away than be proved wrong by some really nasty people who shoot people without a second thought and are way, way better at it than you are..

When I was robbed single handed in one of the smaller and out f the way Cape Verde anchorages I was *extremely* grateful to have slept blissfully through it. Laptop and phone can be replaced.
Lots of people in the world live in such extreme poverty they really have nothing whatsoever to lose. Most are really nice people but not all......

 

[FlyingGoose]

Each situation is unique and one has to be there to comment , rather on a forum,
I have my wife and daughter and am pretty risk assertive , but if I felt they were in danger from rape, murder I have no qualms in painting their security. As everything regret and guilt will come afterwards.
Simple boat hook is a good tool

 

[skipmac]

I can hit a clay pigeon at 40yds with a 12g, I’m fairly sure I could hit a RIB at 20’. Possibly more legally I’m also pretty sure I could chuck a couple of lit red hand flares into a RIB which was close enough to fend off with a boat hook.

At 20' I'm sure you could but, depending on the conditions, you still might hit one of the attackers instead of the tube and with a shotgun that might have undesired consequences...... for everyone.

 

[skipmac]

Each situation is unique and one has to be there to comment , rather on a forum,
I have my wife and daughter and am pretty risk assertive , but if I felt they were in danger from rape, murder I have no qualms in painting their security. As everything regret and guilt will come afterwards.
Simple boat hook is a good tool

If it comes down to protecting family from certain harm my passivism goes out the window.

 

[cherod]

Each situation is unique and one has to be there to comment , rather on a forum,
I have my wife and daughter and am pretty risk assertive , but if I felt they were in danger from rape, murder I have no qualms in painting their security. As everything regret and guilt will come afterwards.
Simple boat hook is a good tool

and regret and guilt would come if i ever felt i could have done more to protect my wife

 

[newtothis]

As for Rambo, not even he would get as riled as a man protecting his boat/dog/children/wife (in order of decreasing importance).

fixed that for you ?

 

[cherod]

At 20' I'm sure you could but, depending on the conditions, you still might hit one of the attackers instead of the tube and with a shotgun that might have undesired consequences...... for everyone.

especially the attacker

 

[skipmac]

Much better to stay away than be proved wrong by some really nasty people who shoot people without a second thought and are way, way better at it than you are..

When I was robbed single handed in one of the smaller and out f the way Cape Verde anchorages I was *extremely* grateful to have slept blissfully through it. Laptop and phone can be replaced.
Lots of people in the world live in such extreme poverty they really have nothing whatsoever to lose. Most are really nice people but not all......

I had a discussion with a boater that was cruising some of the poorer areas of the Caribbean. His position, "I have an older, smaller (32') boat and an old dinghy neither of which looks shiny and fancy so I won't be a target for the thieves. I pointed out that in a country where many live on a few dollars a day anyone that lives on a yacht and doesn't have to work dawn to dusk, 6-7 days a week is a rich American to the locals. When you're hungry and you have a hungry family at home, being nice isn't the first concern. And exactly, possessions can be replaced.