American yachts

[Wansworth]

. Why do so many European yacht designs go for sleek aerodynamic coachroofs wheras the American produce charachterful yachts that give you a coach foot you can sit on and provide a handrail at a useable height

 

[Fr J Hackett]

I don't know but as a general point I have always thought American designers and naval architects have produced better looking and more functional boats than most of what the UK and to an extent Europe has, or at least ones that satisfied and appealed to me.

 

[Wansworth]

I don't know but as a general point I have always thought American designers and naval architects have produced better looking and more functional boats than most of what the UK and to an extent Europe has, or at least ones that satisfied and appealed to me.

Deck moldings are obviously much more difficult to extract and corners are not the best in grp.It was the French who started all this streamlining twaddle as if a thirty footer is going to race along with a silly flush deck faster than a good upright coachroof

 

[Wansworth]

Deck moldings are obviously much more difficult to extract and corners are not the best in grp.It was the French who started all this streamlining twaddle as if a thirty footer is going to race along with a silly flush deck faster than a good upright coachroof

 

[LittleSister]

Deck moldings are obviously much more difficult to extract and corners are not the best in grp.It was the French who started all this streamlining twaddle as if a thirty footer is going to race along with a silly flush deck faster than a good upright coachroof

You won't be comfortable without a dog-house to be in?

 

[LittleSister]

I agree that upright cabins are a good thing, both for moving (or sitting!) around the deck and for being able to see out from inside what's going on around.

My own MAB fine ship has an upright cabin leading back to a small wheelhouse, both with handholds along either side. Interestingly (at least to me) though my boat has an old fashioned 'upright' look, I noticed when I was berthed next to a modern sporty-styled (low wedge shaped 'superstructure') boat 18" shorter than mine, his cabin top height (from the water) was little different to mine, and his spray-hood actually slightly higher than the top of my wheelhouse, but with that height disguised by his high topsides. Of course, such boats gain in internal volume (mine makes up for that with a chunky hull shape), but mine has the advantage of low freeboard amidships which makes getting on and off the boat from pontoon or dinghy significantly easier (while pronounced sheer gives a high bow and high-ish stern).

 

[Stemar]

I very much favour boats with low freeboard and higher cabins because of the ease of getting on board and moving around. Wide open spaces on deck are a hazard when it gets bumpy. Yes, I get that they give space for young, fit crew to move around when handling sails, so advantageous for racing, but for elderly cruisers, something to hang on to or lean against is what I want.

I was rafted up on a friend's boat last weekend and the difference in freeboard between the four boats in our raft made for a real workout getting ashore, especially with the big AWB alongside the pontoon being not far off 3' above pontoon level. Then down a bit then down 2' further onto our Nic 32. Madame managed it, but with difficulty.

On a related subject, there does seem to be a case for saying pontoons should be higher. Maybe they were the right height for the Snapdragons and Centaurs of yore, but now "everybody" has a 40 AWB with sides like the white cliffs of Dover, a bit more height would be helpful. Not too much, though, we don't want to be clambering up to get off Jazzcat!

 

[Wansworth]

Yes it’s a factor in choice of boat getting off to tie up whichoutbreaking an ankle

 

[Geoff A]

I am glad I am not the only one that likes american designed boats .

 

[Motor_Sailor]

It's hard to know what and who influenced whom. The designer of the Pacific Seacraft range is an Englishman, but the designer of the very sensible British Bowman 40 is an American. I recently saw a Bowman 40 moored adjacent to an old wooden Giles 38 and they clearly had their aesthetics grounded in the same sort of influences, but drawn on different sides of the Atlantic.

I think the Americans are more receptive to the true cruiser, rather than their market being dominated by the 'cruiser-racer' with it's homage to the 'low windage deck'.
'Going to the islands' is still the major draw into sailing for many as opposed to 'rating well under iRC', etc.

 

[Wansworth]

It's hard to know what and who influenced whom. The designer of the Pacific Seacraft range is an Englishman, but the designer of the very sensible British Bowman 40 is an American. I recently saw a Bowman 40 moored adjacent to an old wooden Giles 38 and they clearly had their aesthetics grounded in the same sort of influences, but drawn on different sides of the Atlantic.

It’s those bloody frenchies I tell you

 

[Motor_Sailor]

It’s those bloody frenchies I tell you

I'm not so sure. The Swan Wedge was really influential when it appeared in the 70s, and they were designed by an American. As they were deemed to be the epitome of the 'cruiser-racer' at the time, I think they certainly helped make the sleeker 'cruiser-racer' form ubiquitous in Europe.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

It's hard to know what and who influenced whom. The designer of the Pacific Seacraft range is an Englishman, but the designer of the very sensible British Bowman 40 is an American. I recently saw a Bowman 40 moored adjacent to an old wooden Giles 38 and they clearly had their aesthetics grounded in the same sort of influences, but drawn on different sides of the Atlantic.

I think the Americans are more receptive to the true cruiser, rather than their market being dominated by the 'cruiser-racer' with it's homage to the 'low windage deck'.
'Going to the islands' is still the major draw into sailing for many as opposed to 'rating well under iRC', etc.

If you are talking about Bill Creelock He may have been born in the UK but he started his design career in California. He was American to all intents and purposes.

 

[Motor_Sailor]

If you are talking about Bill Creelock He may have been born in the UK but he started his design career in California. He was American to all intents and purposes.

He started his design career at Glasgow University and sailing on the Clyde. He worked as a commercial naval architect in the UK during the war and didn't sail over the Atlantic until he was 28. I met him many times and he always attributed his core values in yacht design to his formative years in 'northern waters'.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

He started his design career at Glasgow University and sailing on the Clyde. He worked as a commercial naval architect in the UK during the war and didn't sail over the Atlantic until he was 28. I met him many times and he always attributed his core values in yacht design to his formative years in 'northern waters'.

Strange that his designs bear no relationship to British boats of the same period.

 

[Wansworth]

Strange that his designs bear no relationship to British boats of the same period.

It was grp that did for the traditional square coachroof.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

It was grp that did for the traditional square coachroof.

CREALOCK 44 (PACIFIC SEACRAFT) - sailboatdata


The Valiant 50 Sailboat

 

[Motor_Sailor]

Strange that his designs bear no relationship to British boats of the same period.

I said 'core values'. Things like strength, stability, bronze where possible and moderation in everything else. The Atkins designs (themselves influenced by Colin Archer's double enders) were very popular on the west coast and Pacific Seacraft (and Bob Perry, Westsail, etc) successfully rode this trend.

Colin Archer was also an influence that would have been present at Glasgow University in the thirties as the double ended Lifeboats by Oakley et al were considered the epitome of small craft seaworthiness.

I think with the exception of yachts designed from commercial craft (pilot cutters, etc) it's very hard to attribute 'national' influences to designer's work. The design world has been international since the mid 19th centenary. The only constant and pervasive influence has been that of the various handicap racing rules.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

I said 'core values'. Things like strength, stability, bronze where possible and moderation in everything else. The Atkins designs (themselves influenced by Colin Archer's double enders) were very popular on the west coast and Pacific Seacraft (and Bob Perry, Westsail, etc) successfully rode this trend.

Colin Archer was also an influence that would have been purvasive at Glasgow University in the thieties as the double ended Lifeboats by Oakley et al were considered the epitome of small craft seaworthiness.

Yes all quite correct but I think Wandsworth and certainly myself were thinking more along the lines of the aesthetics which are also an important part of yacht design and often are the most influential point in a purchase.

 

[KeelsonGraham]

We have a Catalina 34 and are very happy with the design and build quality and the traditional use of wood. If I won the lottery, a new bigger Catalina would be high on my list (after a Hallberg Rassy). The new generation of JenBenBavs with their Ikea interiors leave me absolutely cold.