American VHFs

[PaulJ]

Can anybody throw any light on the legal and practical implications of using a VHF radio made for the US market ? For instance, I believe that our American cousins use a different "Class" of DSC to that used in Europe but I imagine that all those boat that come across here from the other side are perfectly legal in using their radios over here....? There are quite a lot of these sets becoming available over here at very attractive prices and I confess I could just be tempted........

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[ccscott49]

another question for Mike Martin, but I reckon he will say it's illegal for a UK flagged vessel to use or fit US regulated equipment woithout a CE marking. Try a PM to Mike.

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[gtmoore]

The US channel configuration does have some differences to the International spec but most sets will allow you to chose US or International. However, with some of the CE marked DSC sets (which may be a license requirement) now at the sub-£200 level is there very much to be gained?





<hr width=100% size=1>Gavin

 

[johnsomerhausen]

I live in the US and have bought a "cheapie" hand-held VHF, but it does have the CE markings and a "US/Intl" switch so that I could use it in Europe. However, it does not, to the best of my knowledge have channel "M". Nor does it have DSC
john

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[snowleopard]

does it have channels 37A or P4? these are the american versions of M/M2

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[PaulJ]

Thanks for your replies. I have been told that the DSC used in the US is not as good (a lower category) as that used in Europe. Can anybody say what the difference is? As for the point that there are sets now available in the UK for less than £200.... yes there are but the sets available on ebay are "top names" like Icom, Raymarine and JRC and they seem to go for about £170 give or take a bit which is a good price IF they are legal and suitable for use in these waters......

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[BrendanS]

DSC radios come in different categories. All new radios in the UK must be at least Class D. The US have accepted a lower class standard known in the US as SC-101, which is effectively a mix of Class D and Class F. So, if you buy a US set that is SC-101, it is not up to UK standards. If you buy a US set that is Class D, then that is fine (as long as it is CE certified)

SC-101 radios are not capable of simultaneous reception of Channel 70 DSC calls and outgoing calls on other channels

<hr width=100% size=1>Err, let me know if Depsol enters the forum, I'll go and hide

 

[Mike_Martin]

OK, simple answer is no it is not legal or permissible to install equipment manufactured for the US pleasure boat market on non-US pleasure vessels.

Also are you checking the price differencial between Euro Class D and US Class D a lot of people who have spoken to me have been looking at Class F anyway.

The answers that you have been given pretty well cover the legal and technical aspects, so I'll throw in a reality check one as well.

If you were to say purchase a US spec ICOM radio and fit it to a UK vessel and if it goes wrong, you will have to pay for it to be shipped backed to the States for any Warranty repairs to be carried out. ICOM UK will not touch the radio as a) the Warranty is US only and b) they know it's not legally carried on a UK vessel.

As for US ships over here, yes they can use US equipment as long as they are correctly licensed by the FCC to be outside US T/Waters.

Mike.

<hr width=100% size=1>Manager,
Aeronautical & Maritime Services Section,
Radiocommunications Agency

 

[PaulJ]

Thanks gentlemen, that is all I wanted to know.... I guess I'll pass on them.

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[Heckler]

another good reason to say kiss my aspidestra to the EU, good enough for a visiting boat but we cant fit to ours? really
stu

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[Gunfleet]

Read what Mike says carefully. A lot of the US arrangements are for US waters only.

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[Heckler]

i am an american, i buy a vhf radio and fit it, i sail to europe, it all of a sudden stops working?
come on,
stu

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[Heckler]

yeah and its typical of our country today, ruled by the anti american europeans to say that we cant use their equipment, well mr euro ive got news for you, in africa and the middle east they dont give a monkeys for fcc or ce, as long as it works they fit it !! and then they holler all day on 16, with the idea that he who shouts loudest and longest gets thru, in fact come to think of it the italians have the same idea when they go to greece, let the kids have the mike and they can shout cambio all day and night!
stu

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[Mike_Martin]

To re-cap,

The US has a special arrangement for it's "Domestic" pleasure craft I have supplied the link before to the FCC website. It's international vessels pleasure or Merchant must meet the international requirements. Here in the UK, unlike in the US a huge amount of pleasure craft travel internationally (ie France, Holland, Spain, Ireland etc) because they are close to us, so we have to maintain the International rules.

It's quite simple really and not a reason to take on so.

Mike

<hr width=100% size=1>Manager,
Aeronautical & Maritime Services Section,
Radiocommunications Agency

 

[Tantalus]

Sincw the US really requires no licensing for a VHF radio, and they also have reciprocity agreements with the countries of Europe regarding licensing requirements, wouldn't a US flagged vessel carrying a VHF be fully legal in Europe?

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[Mike_Martin]

Hi Tantalus,

If I was in the Office I could supply the FCC web page that deals with Ship radio Licences but I'm not.

The US has NO agreement with anyone about how they deal with Maritime VHF only carrying pleasure craft, I think that you are confusing Amateur Radio into this. What they DO have is an internal arrangement, in the US pleasure craft which carry no more than VHF AND which do not leave US T/Waters do not require a licence. If they carry more than VHF (ie MF/HF) or leave US T/Waters they are required to be licensed in the usual way.

Therefore a US vessel arriving here is expected to be licensed and carrying equipment approved by its Flag State, exactly the same as a British (or in fact any other) boat going overseas.

Does this help?

Mike

<hr width=100% size=1>Manager,
Aeronautical & Maritime Services Section,
Radiocommunications Agency

 

[PaulJ]

Mike,

Thanks for filling us in ..... So what is the legal position if one were to buy and operate one of the many sets which come up on ebay and is it legal to sell them over here if they are are not "Type Approved"? Could the set be confiscated?

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[BrendanS]

Re: FCC FAQ

Not sure if this is the one you meant, but it deals with everything quite clearly, including the requirement for a licence if outside US waters in a pleasure vessel.

Nicely done in fact, clear, simple and covers a great deal. An MCA plain english equivalent would be nice

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://wireless.fcc.gov/marine/fctsht14.html>http://wireless.fcc.gov/marine/fctsht14.html</A>

<hr width=100% size=1>Err, let me know if Depsol enters the forum, I'll go and hide

 

[Mike_Martin]

Under the European Radio & Telecommuncation Terminal Equipment (R&TTE) Directive, equipment can be placed on the market as long as it states if there are restrictions (ie non-licensable, the hand-held DSC is an example) in other Euro admins that prevent its use there. This is intended to open up the European markets for manufacturers and at the same time to protect the buyer from buying the wrong kit.

US manufacturers who do produce for the Euro market (Raymarine springs to mind) don't sell the kit from the US and it is all correctly marked.

If equipment is fitted that is not type approved or CE marked then the Ship Radio Licence is invalidated and the Agency is free to deal with the issue.

WRT to E-bay sellers we are looking into that situation at the moment, so I can't give a definitive answer. The main problem is that sellers are not "radio" people and of those that I have spoken to so far none were aware of the difference between Ship Radio in the US and Europe.

To sum up it is a case of "BUYER BEWARE" as that "bargain" may well not be such a bargain in the long run.

Mike

<hr width=100% size=1>Manager,
Aeronautical & Maritime Services Section,
Radiocommunications Agency

 

[Mike_Martin]

Re: FCC FAQ

Yep, that's the one!

The Maritime Radio page http://www.radio.gov.uk/topics/maritime/maritime-index.htm on the Agency's Website does a similar job.

Mike

<hr width=100% size=1>Manager,
Aeronautical & Maritime Services Section,
Radiocommunications Agency