Am l mad or......

[All_at_Sea]

I have an idea, doesn't happen often but here goes anyway. I have a boat in say Chichester and want a summer holiday to the west country, or France or the east coast, but as usual time is the problem. However if someone said to me there was a service that either delivered my boat to the area concerned or returned it after the holiday then l would be very interested. The snag would be the cost, but what would you be prepared to spend on this?

For example l take two weeks sailing down to the west country, and end up in Penzance, having enjoyed all the joys of the harbours en route. I jump on the train home and ring someone and say go and retrieve my boat and put her back onto my mooring.

I've had a great holiday and the boat gets put back, so what would you expect to pay for that?

The same would work even better abroad, if my boat was in the Med, and l only had two weeks holiday, then to get the most out of the trip l would sail one way and get someone to sail her back - and again what would l pay for this. Is there a service for this type of boat retrieval rather than the usual delivery services that are geared up for longer passages?

What does everyone think - l would be very interested in the Med idea if any of you keep boats out there....would this type of service work for you?

 

[bobupanddown]

I should think about £150 per day!

 

[cliff]

[ QUOTE ]
I should think about £150 per day!

[/ QUOTE ]Plus beer! or at least a bottle of the finest malt per day....

Seriously plus the cost of crew transport, food, moorings enroute etc etc......
--------------------

"Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity"
sailroom <span style="color:red">The place to auction your previously loved boatie bits</span>

 

[bobgoode]

Already been thought of, they are known as delivery skippers and you find them in the classifieds at the back of the sailing mags.

 

[bilbobaggins]

Your idea has some merit. It implies quite a lot of trust on both sides of the arrangement, and a frankness betweeen strangers that is uncommon.

Recent fatal and other serious accidents - described on here and in the press - involving the delivery of boats on a less-than-commercial basis, by clearly skilled and experienced crews, has shown that there can be serious consequences for all involved. Many deeply experienced yachtsmen, who have through the years done a fair amount of successful delivery and re-positioning of friends' or acquaintances' yachts, are now rather less enthusiastic today, in consequence.

It seems to me that appropriate indemnity insurance - covering the delivery trip and crew - is a *must*. If that can be had through the owner's existing insurance policy, then that will help reduce the £ cost. Otherwise, the delivery skipper must find his own cover, and factor that into the agreed cost, which may work out more expensive. I would suggest you speak to your insurers about their perspectives.

To help you with your question about what would seem a reasonable per diem - and assuming the trip warranted a per diem approach - some years ago, a frequently-quoted rate for fairly long distance trips was £100 per day plus travel, food costs and essential disbursements such as fuel and harbour charges. Many 'good' pro delivery skippers will not accept a short-distance contract, and young sailing school instructors ( recommended by the school ) take up the slack, so to build their sea-miles and experience. The range of capability is considerable.

I imagine that upwards of £120 p.d. would now be more relevant - and if a delivery business was involved, then even more would have to be charged to meet the overheads.... After all, what would you expect to pay a plumber or a sparkie for taking responsibility for upwards of £50,000 of assets, for 24 hours a day, until the job is done.....

There have always been 'zero-to-hero' types who will offer to do just as good a job for rather less, and there have always been owners who cast around, near and far, for the lowest quote, then try to 'screw' the delivery skipper for his quite modest fee. Then there are the boats with significant defects, stuck in odd places, that need to be brought back closer to home. And the first time a hired delivery skipper finds out that the bilge pumps don't work is when they're needed, halfway across Biscay, and the liferaft hasn't been serviced in 5 years......

( Yes, I know, one does check, but the example serves. )

If you'd like to have a more detailed perspective of both sides of the equation, PM me and we could speak on't telephone.


/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[All_at_Sea]

I think you may be right about the trust involved. I checked with my insurer who said that provided l was happy with the ability of the person doing this then he/she would be covered.

You are also right about the state of some boats, perhaps l was thinking of a world full of honest types! Think on....I appreciate there are proper businesses out there doing deliveries but for short haul stuff l'm not sure they would be interested. If you could have someone based mid south coast or mid Spanish coast then the ancilliary costs would be less. With all of us seemingly having less time to sail l'm sure this idea might work for some - but l agree a lot of checking may need to be done.

 

[Rosa]

Another idea might be a boat swap if you have limited time and want to sail in a different area. Would it work? Or are the complications/problems too horrendous to contemplate?

 

[CalmSkipper]

Boat swapping sounds like a good idea - just the uncertainty of it would worry me (where would you stand on insurance, how would you know if the person you are swapping with is actually competent and what would happen if either boat was damaged?) I suspect bareboat charter stacks up well against all of these options

 

[chuns]

There is another way....

...but you have to get over a mental hurdle.

This is what we do, wanting to spend our two weeks holiday cruising in Brittany, not spend it getting there and back (2/3 days plus contingency for weather).

We have a boatless chum, he has the boat for a week to do what he wants with it, provided it ends up in, say, Brest on the first day of our holiday. We fly out courtesy of Flybe's cheap fares, he flies back. When the drop off point is further south, say Lorient, he hires a car to drive to the airport, we take it back to the rental company.

At the end of two weeks the procedure is reversed, with us expecting to find the boat back in its berth the following weekend.

This is a true win-win. He gets two weeks sailing for the cost of a return airfare, we get to be free to cruise in our chosen area. He always leaves the boat beautifully clean and tidy.

The mental hurdle is, of course, giving your pride and joy to somebody. Our view is this - boats are to be used, not just polished and looked at, and knocks and scrapes are inevitable. Our chum will be more careful than we are, being on somebody else's boat, and we have to accept that if he dinks it coming into a marina berth, it is something we could just as easily have done. Similar logic applies to more serious incidents, here we accept that he is every bit as experienced as us, and have to accept that if things go really wrong, then Mr Insurance must pay. If there is a breakage or failure of any boat equipment, then the cost of that is down to us, though we have gone 50/50 where he was so embarrassed that he insisted on contributing as he felt he had contributed to the breakage.

You have to trust.

This may not be for you, but it certainly works for us, and no, our boat is not a beat-up wreck that doesn't matter, it is a well equipped and maintained quality marque that we love and cherish.

 

[tcm]

Not at all mad

The idea of the boat gettig shifted around by others can and does work. Usiong this forum,it could be just about free. Well, you could pay for "on-costs" above avctually sittig about normally, such as train tickets or petrol perhaps. But anyway there are plenty of layabouts with plenty of time, such as er, well, me anyway, but i know there are others far more experienced.

I should also say although you may find people elsewhere of course, many on the forum know each other in person, some over many years, and many have got to know each other and even gone into business together as a direct result of first acquaintance on the forum. You can also get a quick "reference" from others. There is a whole bunch of people whom i know would get the boat there if it were sensibleto do so, and stay in contact or er sit in the marina if it just wasn't on.

Yep, the insurance has to be right.

But for a short hop you describe (or even actually a longish one to the med), letting other people take the boat to west country and giving them a week in which to do it wd be free of course, and if managed properly should be as safe or maybe even possibly safer than with a paid-for delivery trip where there would be more onus on the skipper and company to get it there regardless.

An initial invite on the forum would be a good way to go, detailing the likely range of dates and boat and destination. Each applicant wd of course have to give CV and references (by PM) perhaps of others on the forums or elsewhere and of course you shd checkem out. You could also checkem out with a day sail too, although i suppose you have to remember that you don't have to get on with them.

You shd be able to get several people who actually are boatowners themselves, so recognise the agony and wariness you will have...

 

[john_morris_uk]

We have used friends/aquaintances/friends of friends to deliver our boat before now. Anton brought the boat back from La Rochelle the year before last. (Not sure why he went via Cherbourg to get to Plymouth!) But the boat was immaculately clean, a bottle of whisky and some wine as 'thank you's' and it was on time and in one piece without a scratch.

He even gave me a cheque for £40 as he hadn't managed to fill the fuel tank up as promised.

We have some friends who have used a similar arrangement with their boat and another mutual friend.

 

[Lizzie_B]

I have let friends use my boat and on occassion with a requirement that they end up at a certain point on a certain date. (but only people I trust- usually means I have sailed with them). I find they take better care of my boat than they do of their own.

As far as insurance goes - my insurance company simply asks that anyone who operates the boat without me on board has their name added to the policy, informing the company of the persons experience , age and qualifications, if any.

So far, they have not charged me extra for this, but I expect they would 'enhance' the premium if they felt nervous about any particular individual's back ground.