Aluminium Centreboard Boats?

[Dave100456]

As to performance, these boats are in a different world: we (41', 35yo jeanneau) sailed together with some friends' Boreal 47 during a few weeks in CV islands, the question from my friend's wife was "how come Roberto with one sail, is faster than we are with two sails".
Apart from that, really excellent go-anywhere boats. FWIW, IMHO Boreal is in a different league altogether from OVNIs, though of course both are "4x4 of the seas".
Garcia 45 -always imho- is more a marketing product, not sure how many units have been made but the significant number of them on sale just after a couple of years might tell something; now try finding a 2nd-hand Boreal.

As you've not responded to my post of yesterday, (I see you were on the forum this morning some hours ago) I can only guess that you were implying there's something wrong with the Garcia Exploration which is why you claim these owners are selling because they're unhappy when you posted; "but the significant number of them on sale just after a couple of years might tell something"

The fact that Garcia began building boats in 1974 and Boreal began building in 2005, some 31 years later, will have a bearing on the number of boats built and hence the number for sale secondhand.

If we drill down and look specifically at the Garcia Exploration 45 and Boreal equivalent 44/47 perhaps you have shot yourself in the foot as Yacht World shows more used Boreals for sale than the two Garcias (one of which is sold STC)!
see Garcia Exploration 45 for sale - YachtWorld UK.
I won't adapt your quote and say: "but the significant number of them (Boreal) on sale just after a couple of years might tell something" as I prefer to deal in fact and first-hand information rather than the unsubstantiated innuendo of your posting.

You also said "now try finding a 2nd-hand Boreal". A quick search shows plenty for sale if you're looking!!
Boreal boats for sale - YachtWorld UK

Boreal and Garcia make fine boats as do many other builders. I looked and sailed both and compared them to the HR48 I had sailed 10,000+M in. I decided on the Garcia.

Do I miss things about the HR48, yes. Do I prefer some things about the the Boreal than the Garcia, yes. Does a perfect boat exist, no. I've now sailed 7,000+M in the Garcia Exploration 45 a few miles of which alongside HR48s and Boreal 44/47s. Did I make the right choice, definitely because yacht design and ownership is a compromise.

This is me intentionally high and dry during the first week of me getting to know her.

 

[Ric]

Congratulations on your Garcia 45 and you have also sailed the Boreal 47 so you know a lot more about both boats than me. I am interested in what made you choose the G45 over the B47?

I have poured over the paper specifications and viewed a lot of youtube videos of both and much prefer the B47. In no particular order, it has advantages over G45 of flat-spreaders, self tacking staysail, lower freeboard, better view forward from cockpit (not to mention from the doghouse), massive cockpit storage, a single deeply protected rudder (I know the G45 rudders can be individually disconnected but they still look a bit vulnerable), welded aluminium deck (the G45 fibreglass deck will inevitably leak eventually), and did I mention the DOGHOUSE. I also just prefer the looks of the B47.

The only aspect of the G45 Iike better is the technical area in one of the rear cabins which I don't think is available on the B47 as a factory option.

 

[Roberto]

Good, I am happy for you
Never mind what I wrote, (FWIW I almost bought first a Maracuja, then a Nouanni); enjoy your G45
regards

As you've not responded to my post of yesterday, (I see you were on the forum this morning some hours ago) I can only guess that you were implying there's something wrong with the Garcia Exploration which is why you claim these owners are selling because they're unhappy when you posted; "but the significant number of them on sale just after a couple of years might tell something"

The fact that Garcia began building boats in 1974 and Boreal began building in 2005, some 31 years later, will have a bearing on the number of boats built and hence the number for sale secondhand.

If we drill down and look specifically at the Garcia Exploration 45 and Boreal equivalent 44/47 perhaps you have shot yourself in the foot as Yacht World shows more used Boreals for sale than the two Garcias (one of which is sold STC)!
see Garcia Exploration 45 for sale - YachtWorld UK.
I won't adapt your quote and say: "but the significant number of them (Boreal) on sale just after a couple of years might tell something" as I prefer to deal in fact and first-hand information rather than the unsubstantiated innuendo of your posting.

You also said "now try finding a 2nd-hand Boreal". A quick search shows plenty for sale if you're looking!!
Boreal boats for sale - YachtWorld UK

Boreal and Garcia make fine boats as do many other builders. I looked and sailed both and compared them to the HR48 I had sailed 10,000+M in. I decided on the Garcia.

Do I miss things about the HR48, yes. Do I prefer some things about the the Boreal than the Garcia, yes. Does a perfect boat exist, no. I've now sailed 7,000+M in the Garcia Exploration 45 a few miles of which alongside HR48s and Boreal 44/47s. Did I make the right choice, definitely because yacht design and ownership is a compromise.

This is me intentionally high and dry during the first week of me getting to know her.
View attachment 103904

 

[Dave100456]

Congratulations on your Garcia 45 and you have also sailed the Boreal 47 so you know a lot more about both boats than me. I am interested in what made you choose the G45 over the B47?

I have poured over the paper specifications and viewed a lot of youtube videos of both and much prefer the B47. In no particular order, it has advantages over G45 of flat-spreaders, self tacking staysail, lower freeboard, better view forward from cockpit (not to mention from the doghouse), massive cockpit storage, a single deeply protected rudder (I know the G45 rudders can be individually disconnected but they still look a bit vulnerable), welded aluminium deck (the G45 fibreglass deck will inevitably leak eventually), and did I mention the DOGHOUSE. I also just prefer the looks of the B47.

The only aspect of the G45 Iike better is the technical area in one of the rear cabins which I don't think is available on the B47 as a factory option.

Happy to give my personal points with the caveat; I only sailed the B47 in light conditions but have been on a B44/47s twice before making my choice and twice for a beer and extended look round since crossing with my G45.

You need to sit on both boats for some time and preferably go for a sail on both. Whilst I consider myself to be a voyager rather than someone who sits in marinas (I anchor 99% of the time) Even I spend a lot of time not moving (75+%?) and for us the G45 does this far, far better than the B47.


To answer your points in turn:
"Flat spreaders" -Yes prefer these on the B47

"Self tacking staysail" - on the G45 the staysail is not large and the sheets are accessible from the helm so not a big deciding issue. I did the singlehanded round Bequai race last year in lively conditions with lots of short tacking and no issues.

"Lower freeboard" -yes looks nicer but G45 is a dry boat and takes on less green water.

"Better view forward from cockpit (not to mention from the doghouse)" Have to disagree because of Twin wheels on the G45, larger fixed sprayhood that at 5ft 11" I can see over/round easily. Also the view from the nav station is better on the G45 something appreciated by my wife who doesn't like the noise outside when its dark and the flying fish attacks.

"massive cockpit storage," Not found this to be an issue on the G45> In my 3 good size cockpit lockers I store liferaft, BBQ, pressure washer, mains cable, hosepipe, mooring lines, snubber, bucket, etc etc. These are the only items I need tp hand in the cockpit. In the bow storage locker I store a code the sail, an asymmetric sail both on furlers, a spare solent for twin headsail rig. hydrogenergator when not deployed, all the fenders and there's still room for me to go down the ladder into the locker. Storage space is good but its best to have it close to where the stored items are needed.

"a single deeply protected rudder" I prefer to have the firmness of bite in the water of twin rudders. they are capable of being used independently as you say and in addition have a sacrificial crumple zone built in to the design should the worst happen. You'll see when I dry out the rudders are approx 300mm off the ground.

"welded aluminium deck" Your not right on this: are you thinking of the Allures as the G45 has a welded aluminium deck? The G45 is heavier than the B47 and you can see this as potential to be stronger or slower.

"DOGHOUSE" Very personal preference, at 5ft 11" I found the B44/47 doghouse too small to be of use and will only take one person. My view is you are either outside or inside.

"I also just prefer the looks of the B47". Yes some aspects of the B47 give it nice looks. However, on the G45 the under deck run for all the lines give a clean deck and I love the lines of the coachroof. I found the deck of the B47 to be "fussy"

Things not mentioned that I like about the G45: Double glazed safety glass as standard all round . Workshop; as you say it is great and I fitted a domestic washing machine in there without compromising bench/work space. Better raised saloon layout. Headroom -I had to crouch in places on the B47. Twin wheels (I think B are going down this road now) their single wheel divides the cockpit too much. Better dinghy storage and access to easily raise and lower it; the arch is great and I've fitted 660 watts of solar on here too. Whilst I sail with my wife only she doesn't do any of the "sailing" and on previous boats worried when I had to go fwd in big seas. On the G45 I can do everything from the cockpit which is great. 5 great lockers on the transom for gas, fuel diving gear etc. Better platform on the sugarscoop on the G45 allows safer access into the dinghy in rough conditions.

Hope this helps. Cheers Dave

 

[rgarside]

What? That’s a bit poor on such a premium boat. Does a flat slab of aluminium create any lift?

Yes it does, it won't have an impressive lift/drag ratio and the stall angle will be relatively low.

 

[Laminar Flow]

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