AIS & ship’s identity

@Sta your understanding of the public domain and mine are very different.

A long time ago I was a member of a Mountain Rescue Team we analysed all sorts of data about the casualties we were looking for. Usually by phone with relatives or other climbing partners. How often do they climb, how fit are they, what are their skill levels, have they been to that hill before, have they done that route before. It all builds up a picture.

If I hit the wee red button the passage data is available to the CG if they use it is their decision.

You raise all sorts of questions about personally identifiable data there, the lawyers can debate what is and what is not. Personally, I do not consider the position of a vessel as personal data. For all you know my good friend Kemp could be taking my boat out out for an enjoying sail to the Eddystone. Then we will go out for a few pints. Oh hang on... What about all those CCTV cameras that stream images on the internet on the way home? Dawlish Seafront is a favorite of mine and it is lovely today.

Edit: Corrections for text entered on my smartphone.
 
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Black Sheep said:
For what it's worth, I agree with the OP.
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I've noticed we tend to agree on many issues posted here, and I'm not adverse to a discreet tinfoil lining to my M&S sun hat but the original question in post #1 seemed to be based on the lack of realisation that the uniquely trackable piece of information transmitted by AIS (your MMSI) is not only publicly resolvable to a boat name, but also to the registrant's name. Our boat names are not generally unique. Our MMSIs are. If I don't want to be tracked I don't transmit AIS (and I only care about that from a safety standpoint in limited situations like channel crossing), I wouldn't rely on the notion that a stalker who knows enough about boating to use marinetraffic doesn't know how to do a lookup on the ITU site. Putting your MMSI into the boat name field is just false privacy, arguably at the expense of safety.

Plus of course I'd rather not invite the attention of the UK or French border forces by doing anything obviously weird with the info I'm transmitting. That would be inviting an invasion of not only my privacy but also my space.
 
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Jamie Dundee said:
I find it a bit odd that people with (rightly or wrongly) grave personal privacy concerns post these concerns on social media ?
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I find it a bit odd that people with (rightly or wrongly) grave personal privacy concerns visit public places. If they don't want a webcam in their house, why is it ok that anyone can see what they do on the street?
The difference is maybe that I can choose what I publish on social media. I can even lie. I can publish a picture of my friend's food from a restaurant and write that I ate it. I can publish a cat video and write that I loved it, even if it was boring.
I remember a long time ago when Facebook changed how their site worked. Messages people had sent to just a few friends became public. I remember how my sister went through everthing she had written. Why not let people read her private messages to close friends when she had written other things averybody could read?

Sandy said:
@Sta your understanding of the public domain and mine are very different.

A long time ago I was a member of a Mountain Rescue Team we analysed all sorts of data about the casualties we were looking for. Usually by phone with relatives or other climbing partners. How often do they climb, how fit are they, what are their skill levels, have they been to that hill before, have they done that route before. It all builds up a picture.

If I hit the wee red button the passage data is available to the CG if they use it is their decision.

You raise all sorts of questions about personally identifiable data they the lawyers can debate. I do not consider the position of a vessel as personal data, for all you know my good friend Kemp could be taking it out and enjoying a sail to the Eddystone and back before we go out for a few pints. What about all those CCTV cameras that stream images on the internet on the way home? Dawlish Seafront is lovely today.

Edit: to correct edits made by smartphone.
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When we are talking about information that are published so everybody can read it, then I call things that are published so everybody can read it for the public domain. For example AIS tracking. I have so far not seen any site that analyze radar signals from boats and publish it so everybody can see where they have passed.
A difference between the webcams and AIS is that I can't search for your name and find a list over everytime you pass a webcam. Do you want me to be able to do that?

I have no problems that it is possible to share the location to everybody and that people would like to do that. What I think is strange is that personal information is usually not spread to everybody, especially not after GDPR, but I have to choose to not use tranceiver if I don't want to share my location.
 
laika said:
I've noticed we tend to agree on many issues posted here, and I'm not adverse to a discreet tinfoil lining to my M&S sun hat but the original question in post #1 seemed to be based on the lack of realisation that the uniquely trackable piece of information transmitted by AIS (your MMSI) is not only publicly resolvable to a boat name, but also to the registrant's name. Our boat names are not generally unique. Our MMSIs are. If I don't want to be tracked I don't transmit AIS (and I only care about that from a safety standpoint in limited situations like channel crossing), I wouldn't rely on the notion that a stalker who knows enough about boating to use marinetraffic doesn't know how to do a lookup on the ITU site. Putting your MMSI into the boat name field is just false privacy, arguably at the expense of safety.

Plus of course I'd rather not invite the attention of the UK or French border forces by doing anything obviously weird with the info I'm transmitting. That would be inviting an invasion of not only my privacy but also my space.
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Yes, we do often agree. I should clarify that my agreement with the OP is that I find it inappropriate that I have to make a choice between safety and reasonable privacy; that using an AIS transmitter results in my whereabouts being published online. But I don't think the OP's proposed solution (MMSI instead of vessel name in the transmission) works for a number of reasons.

I've got no problem with receiving stations within VHF distance identifying me, but I'm not keen on that information being made available to everybody over the Internet, as it is. A parallel would be that I don't object to having a number plate on my car that can be seen by everyone within 100m or so. But I wouldn't like a website to spring up, fed by ANPR cameras, that routinely published whereabouts and tracks of all vehicles in the UK, searchable by name. (non-car analogies are also available)
 
Sta said:
A difference between the webcams and AIS is that I can't search for your name and find a list over everytime you pass a webcam. Do you want me to be able to do that?

I have no problems that it is possible to share the location to everybody and that people would like to do that. What I think is strange is that personal information is usually not spread to everybody, especially not after GDPR, but I have to choose to not use tranceiver if I don't want to share my location.
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You can in China. There are even big screens on the streets showing people's identities which have been picked up through facial recognition within the cctv system.
 
Maybe the solution is to register your boat in a company name rather than your personal name. I imagine that would hide your principal identity on the Mars ITU database.
 
Bobc said:
You can in China. There are even big screens on the streets showing people's identities which have been picked up through facial recognition within the cctv system.
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You've put your finger on a vital issue. Concern about privacy is very much a Western thing. People in Asia, for example, tend to focus on the benefits of sharing information, rather than the disadvantages. Privacy isn't a big issue in their culture. I had first hand experience of this when I was involved in ISO standards for geographic information. One group was proposing a new set of standards to cover such things as location sharing; it went far beyond anything that would be acceptable in Europe. They were astonished when I pointed out that many of the things they proposed would be illegal in Europe; they were only looking at the benefits and didn't even consider privacy issues.
 
Sta said:
It seems like if many who don't understand that people don't want that their boats get tracked misunderstand the point of Kemp's first post. Yes, the mobile phone record everything we do, but you can't google my name and find where I am right now or where I have been.
I thought about if I should buy AIS transponder or just reciever. That anyone can see my position is too much invasion of my private life, I decided to buy a reciever. If only people within VHF range would see me I would be interested in an transponder. I had not bought equipment to a car or bike that show for everybody where I am.
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I think we all get the “invasion of privacy” thing. 1) It’s just the boat that’s tracked, not you personally 2) it’s always an option to stay on “silent” mode ...
 
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