Advise on Two project boats please.

[Sea Food Junkie]

Hi All,

I have a conundrum that I am struggling with to choose a trailer sailor. I own two project boats that I cannot make my mid up to which one to put my time into. I would like to merge my SCUBA diving, fishing and sailing in the future. Sailing is something I have not done and I may join a club to get experience and advice. I prefer the Hurley, but it requires allot more time and money. New sails and standing rigging are always a good purchase on an old boat anyway. I am handy at fixing and welding things, so repair and replacement is not a big issue. I am good at electrical work also.

One thing that I was wondering is to get the Mirror working and then sell that after getting my experience in open water. I am concerned that the lack of original engine may affect the ballast.

The Mirror has an old trailer that the brakes have been removed from and so may be a problem to fix for the heavier Hurley.

One other possibility is to sell the Mirror without the trailer and modify it to soot the Hurley. I can then fix up the Hurley.

Boat 1 = Mirror offshore

Pros =Good hull, Mast boom and Sails, Trailer, roller furling, shallow draft and light, Woodwork is in reasonable condition.

Cons = No internal engine, no running rigging, no standing rigging, no running rigging, No electrics or instruments, No engine.

Boat 2 = Hurley 20

Pros =Good hull, Mast and boom, has old standing rigging, looks to be a better boat overall.

Cons = No rudder, no roller furling, Needs windows, needs new saddle frame on ballast welding, No sails, No Trailer, no running rigging, old standing rigging, no running rigging, No electrics instruments, Needs all woodwork replacing but looks straightforward, No engine.

 

[DoubleEnder]

I’d go for boat #3 These both sound like loads of work for little reward. You can do much, much better

 

[wallacebob]

Need to be for free.
Need ashore storage.
Need afloat mooring or berth.
Need to have no life or relationship.

 

[ridgy]

How have you come in to ownership of these two desirable vessels?

The mirror sounds like it could be got going for not much effort. Just stick an outboard on the back. Will still need the brakes reinstating though if about 800kg is truly what it weighs.

The Hurley is rather worthless and preferably you didn't pay any money for it. Don't waste another penny or millisecond on it, other than the price of the chainsaw you will need to buy to get rid of it. You could get some money for the keels though and maybe the mast.

 

[DreadShips]

On a hard financial basis the brutal answer is neither. For the amount it'll cost to pick up an engine, rigging, instruments etc you can probably pick up a boat in better nick (and this is a VERY low bar) that'll be a much better base to start from. You might even be able to sail it straight away.

Unless there's a big emotional attachment to either boat I'd cut my losses - it's not even like you can cobble together some sort of working Frankenboat by combining the two hulls you have now.

 

[Tranona]

Neither is worth spending any more than the transport to the salvage yard.

 

[Sea Change]

You could probably get the Mirror up and running for little money. Most of that money would be an outboard which you could keep or sell on separately if and when you decide to move on to another boat.
The Hurley needs too much work to be viable.

 

[garymalmgren]

RE; I cannot make my mid up to which one to put my time into.

Hmm. No mention of money.
Let me help.
You need a pencil and a piece of paper.
Sit down and write a list of everything. Everything ( anchor rode. PDF. cushions) everything.
Then in a column next to ALL those items write an estimate.
Then double the estimate.

The answer to your question will jump off the page.

 

[KevinV]

If you're wanting time to dive, fish and sail you haven't got time to mess with either of these boats.
As above, moneywise it makes no sense either, there are loads of cheap small boats out there in usable condition.
As they say "you don't want to start from here".

Salvage what money you can from these two hulls and buy something you can use now. You can always indulge your skills improving something that already works.

 

[PaulRainbow]

5th November will be a good time to deal with both

 

[doug748]

Hi All,

I have a conundrum that I am struggling with to choose a trailer sailor. I own two project boats that I cannot make my mid up to which one to put my time into. I would like to merge my SCUBA diving, fishing and sailing in the future. Sailing is something I have not done and I may join a club to get experience and advice. I prefer the Hurley, but it requires allot more time and money. New sails and standing rigging are always a good purchase on an old boat anyway. I am handy at fixing and welding things, so repair and replacement is not a big issue. I am good at electrical work also.

One thing that I was wondering is to get the Mirror working and then sell that after getting my experience in open water. I am concerned that the lack of original engine may affect the ballast.

The Mirror has an old trailer that the brakes have been removed from and so may be a problem to fix for the heavier Hurley.

One other possibility is to sell the Mirror without the trailer and modify it to soot the Hurley. I can then fix up the Hurley.

Boat 1 = Mirror offshore

Pros =Good hull, Mast boom and Sails, Trailer, roller furling, shallow draft and light, Woodwork is in reasonable condition.

Cons = No internal engine, no running rigging, no standing rigging, no running rigging, No electrics or instruments, No engine.

Boat 2 = Hurley 20

Pros =Good hull, Mast and boom, has old standing rigging, looks to be a better boat overall.

Cons = No rudder, no roller furling, Needs windows, needs new saddle frame on ballast welding, No sails, No Trailer, no running rigging, old standing rigging, no running rigging, No electrics instruments, Needs all woodwork replacing but looks straightforward, No engine.

I have to agree with the others - they know.

Possibly the Mirror but only if you really, really love the work and know what you are doing. If you buy new rigging and wait till a secondhand mast comes up you will still be in it for over £1000. Pus you may be fussing for a couple of years waiting for cheap used things to come up - then it will probably be at the other end of the country etc etc.

There are a lot of cheap boats at the moment. You could probably be sailing this season for around £1500 eg:

Gem Boats Little Gem for sale UK, Gem Boats boats for sale, Gem Boats used boat sales, Gem Boats Sailing Yachts For Sale 18' Gem Micro - Trailer Sailer - Apollo Duck

You would little doubt spend more on either of the boats above.

.

 

[PCUK]

I'm sorry to say that the vast majority of members here have no interest in boat building and do not understand the satisfaction that building something yourself brings so no surprise on the general reaction. For many it is all down to money. In my opinion this is a hobby or sport to be enjoyed, not a financial calculation.
I would go with the Mirror as they still have some credence as nice boats despite their age. You must get brakes on the trailer as this is essential to safety and legality. Do the very best job you can and don't try and skimp on materials and equipment. Also enjoy the work.

 

[Concerto]

Working on any old boat will take time and money to fix to a usable standard. Working on a boat takes 3 to 4 times longer than a similar DIY home job. Also marine quality items cost a lot more than domestic items including nuts and bolts, screws, wood, paint, sea cocks, fittings, etc. When I restored my 32ft Westerly Fulmar I budgeted £12,000 and it has now cost me £30,000 plus the cost of the boat. Yes I have done many major improvements and updating but this is just as an illustration of working on either boat could outstrip your anticipated budget. They are both economically and time wise a waste of both. It will interrupt your social and domestic life, not to mention stopping you going SCUBA diving and fishing as you will be working on a boat. The advice is go and find something in a ready to go state and start all your boating activities immediately.

Further I should point out the any trailer sailor takes time to launch and recover, so to use just for one day is loosing a lot of time on the water. Also you may need to have a heavier car to tow a boat with which could add to your outgoings.

https://wiki.westerly-owners.co.uk/images/3/3f/Concerto.pdf

 

[chriscallender]

If you're wanting time to dive, fish and sail you haven't got time to mess with either of these boats.
As above, moneywise it makes no sense either, there are loads of cheap small boats out there in usable condition.
As they say "you don't want to start from here".

Salvage what money you can from these two hulls and buy something you can use now. You can always indulge your skills improving something that already works.

Ditch the projects, get a second hand RIB for diving and fishing and a dinghy for sailing, both of them ready to go out tomorrow? That would give you a much nicer summer, unless you are one of those people that actually enjoys fixing boats more than going out in them...

A sailing boat is never going to make a good dive boat (hard to carry lots of kit and get in and out of), fishing I don't know much about but I imagine you could do it from anything that floats, and for sailing you could get a dinghy in ready to go condition for a few hundred, maybe 500 with a road trailer.

 

[KevinV]

For many it is all down to money. In my opinion this is a hobby or sport to be enjoyed, not a financial calculation.

Time and money have to come into it, nobody has infinite supplies of either.

 

[DreadShips]

In my opinion this is a hobby or sport to be enjoyed, not a financial calculation.

Restoring boats and sailing boats are two very different hobbies, with maintenance somewhere in between. I agree that nobody would choose either of them due to their sound financial sense though.

 

[PaulRainbow]

I'm sorry to say that the vast majority of members here have no interest in boat building and do not understand the satisfaction that building something yourself brings so no surprise on the general reaction. For many it is all down to money. In my opinion this is a hobby or sport to be enjoyed, not a financial calculation.

What's the hobby ? Being out on the water, or being in a boatyard/shed spending money and all of your free time working for nothing to end up with something that cost several times what you could have bought a usable one for ?

There has to be a limit, it's expensive and time consuming enough owning a "ready to go" boat.

An on the water boat, capable of being used, bought for a price that allows for some updating/improvements is a different thing to pouring time and money into something thats value is less than nothing and not worth much more when finished.

 

[PCUK]

Sorry Paul, I didn't mean include you in the above list. However, my hobby is divided equally between the building/maintenance and use and in my case, no, there doesn't have to be a limit. The cost is immaterial as it's my hobby, not my business. (Although in many ways it is also my business as I do pick-up work for others). If I played golf I wouldn't be constantly agonising about how much each round cost and how much I was wasting on green fees etc. so I can't see the difference.
But back to the original post. I would say if you enjoy the practical side get on with it and don't worry about the cost. If you just want to get afloat then pay more initially and get something ready to go.

 

[PaulRainbow]

Sorry Paul, I didn't mean include you in the above list. However, my hobby is divided equally between the building/maintenance and use and in my case, no, there doesn't have to be a limit. The cost is immaterial as it's my hobby, not my business. (Although in many ways it is also my business as I do pick-up work for others). If I played golf I wouldn't be constantly agonising about how much each round cost and how much I was wasting on green fees etc. so I can't see the difference.
But back to the original post. I would say if you enjoy the practical side get on with it and don't worry about the cost. If you just want to get afloat then pay more initially and get something ready to go.

I do understand most of your point, but for me there still has to be a limit.

Previous boat was a minor project, needed some updating and tidying up. Almost got my money back, but spent a lot of time on it. Happy with that though, as i had a few years of virtually issue free use of it (minor maintenance).

Current boat was basically sound when we bought it, good enough to use and live aboard. It was substantially less than any other one on the market and i estimated that all of that difference would be needed to bring it up to the standard i wanted, plus a couple of years of my free time. Almost finished now, spent all of the estimated costs and a little bit, but will be the best example around, exactly how we want it and lots of new stuff. Owned it for three years now, but virtually lost the last two years due to cancer and follow up complications, getting back on my feet now.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Why restore a boat with zero historical interest spending more money than you could buy a functional one for? Fixing up a beautiful classic that people will admire, sure, sometimes no matter the price. Outdated mass produced boats are not worth the time, money or effort. You’ll never see anything back on any of those 3.