Advice please, head's spinning...

[tomcourtney]

Think of all the dutch steel boat owners who have happily managed on a single for years, not to mention all the commercial fishing boats too.

Can't argue with the logic, maybe it's beginners nerves, I haven't discounted a single engine but as our proposed usage is light on mileage in relation to duration I am willing to pay the extra running costs of 2 engines.
There is a Pedro 36 twin engines at Chertsey that I've been trying to get down to check out which may fit the bill. Might manage a trip next week.

 

[longjohnsilver]

Can't argue with the logic, maybe it's beginners nerves, I haven't discounted a single engine but as our proposed usage is light on mileage in relation to duration I am willing to pay the extra running costs of 2 engines.
There is a Pedro 36 twin engines at Chertsey that I've been trying to get down to check out which may fit the bill. Might manage a trip next week.

I'd go for a single engine every time at that size. I bet that a double installation will be tight and therefore servicing may well have been missed whereas a single will give plenty of engine room space and thus servicing much easier. A generalisation of course so check the engine(s} carefully.

 

[tomcourtney]

I'd go for a single engine every time at that size. I bet that a double installation will be tight and therefore servicing may well have been missed whereas a single will give plenty of engine room space and thus servicing much easier. A generalisation of course so check the engine(s} carefully.

Good point possibly, I'll keep it in mind when I get to spend a few days in Holland checking them out.
Thanks

 

[Wavey]

Before we bought our current boat last year we had a 40ft steel boat with twin 4 cylinder TAMD31B's. Even then it was tight getting to everything.

Look on a couple of the Dutch brokers sites at pictures of boats they offer with singles (generally they love to show you how clean they keep their engine space) and you'll see you get enough room for a party down there

 

[tomcourtney]

Think I'll check out diesel engine maintenance courses, combined with regular servicing and a good spares list sounds the way to go.

 

[Seahope]

Can't argue with the logic, maybe it's beginners nerves, I haven't discounted a single engine but as our proposed usage is light on mileage in relation to duration I am willing to pay the extra running costs of 2 engines.
There is a Pedro 36 twin engines at Chertsey that I've been trying to get down to check out which may fit the bill. Might manage a trip next week.

I know where you are coming from on that. When I was thinking about buying our boat I decided that two engines must be better than one especially as I (wrongly) assumed that we would be making cross channel voyages.

The issue with two engines in a smaller boat is that you have twice the annual service charges, twice as much to go wrong and very little space in the engine room. My hull is about 29' and it really is tight in the engine room.

You probably don't have twice the fuel usage of a single engine since you can run each engine at a lower rpm compared to a single for a given speed, but certainly fuel usage is higher than a single engine.

I still like the peace of mind and improved handling characteristics of having two engines e.g. being able to spin on the spot

 

[tomcourtney]

I still like the peace of mind and improved handling characteristics of having two engines e.g. being able to spin on the spot

Mooring in the Aegean harbours I'll add a bowthruster as well.

 

[Seahope]

Mooring in the Aegean harbours I'll add a bowthruster as well.

Yes, that would help too. Just been agonizing over whether to have one fitted this year or use the money to repay the house mortgage. Common sense has prevailed as I am now seeking to be in a position to downsize my job ASAP

 

[tomcourtney]

Yes, that would help too. Just been agonizing over whether to have one fitted this year or use the money to repay the house mortgage. Common sense has prevailed as I am now seeking to be in a position to downsize my job ASAP

It's all about what gives you most quality of life. I retired 10 yrs early and will live within my means instead of existing through irreplaceable years to improve them.
(Might be some wisdom there with a bit of editing )
Hence our impending move to Crete, the good weather will help to stretch the pensions a bit and allow for an unpretentious craft to cruise the islands probably stocked with tinned spam and tuna

 

[Seahope]

It's all about what gives you most quality of life. I retired 10 yrs early and will live within my means instead of existing through irreplaceable years to improve them.
(Might be some wisdom there with a bit of editing )
Hence our impending move to Crete, the good weather will help to stretch the pensions a bit and allow for an unpretentious craft to cruise the islands probably stocked with tinned spam and tuna

All I can say is good luck to you. Where we are thinking of going isn't that cheap but has other advantages and I hope to spend 6 months there and 6 months in UK. If I rent out the UK house for the other 6 months that may help with our living costs. I don't think I will be able to afford a boat when no longer working though as the costs are just too high

 

[blueglass]

It's all about what gives you most quality of life. I retired 10 yrs early and will live within my means instead of existing through irreplaceable years to improve them.
(Might be some wisdom there with a bit of editing )
Hence our impending move to Crete, the good weather will help to stretch the pensions a bit and allow for an unpretentious craft to cruise the islands probably stocked with tinned spam and tuna

Your dream is entirely attainable and you will I am sure have no regrets.
Some excellent advice here but don't worry too much about the sail/power thing. We have just spent 6 years in the med, much of it round the Greek islands - in a 38 ft mobo with twin 225 hp diesels and to be honest the fuel costs at the kind of mileage you are talking about will be the least of your worries. can't say the same for maintenance, but again we spent more on maintaining other boat systems than the engines, which mostly plodded on with just normal servicing carried out each year by myself.
An advantage of power boats not mentioned so far, is that generally,especially with an aft cabin dutch steel for example, you will have far more living space, inside and out length for length than any sailing boat I have ever been on.

 

[Wavey]

Your dream is entirely attainable and you will I am sure have no regrets.
Some excellent advice here but don't worry too much about the sail/power thing. We have just spent 6 years in the med, much of it round the Greek islands - in a 38 ft mobo with twin 225 hp diesels and to be honest the fuel costs at the kind of mileage you are talking about will be the least of your worries. can't say the same for maintenance, but again we spent more on maintaining other boat systems than the engines, which mostly plodded on with just normal servicing carried out each year by myself.
An advantage of power boats not mentioned so far, is that generally,especially with an aft cabin dutch steel for example, you will have far more living space, inside and out length for length than any sailing boat I have ever been on.

Appreciate that. SWMBO and I will be heading off that way in our boat in the not to distant future if all goes to plan.

 

[tomcourtney]

Thanks Blueglass for your encouraging reply. I'm pretty confident I'll make the correct choice when the time comes with the help and advice I'm getting on the board and from contacts linked from the members.
I will devour any info / tips / memories from your voyages you care to provide if you have time.

Post, PM or tomjane@gmail.com

 

[Rob m]

Agree with other messages Tom, cheap and motor cruising are not compatible words. For your budget you'd get into a 2000 (ish) Beneteau Antares 10.80 (36') which is just about big enough for two (just). If you run it gently the fuel bills wont be too bad.

Avoid old boats like the plague unless you are very handy mechanically and are prepared to spend ages prepping her before you start using. Beware the smooth talking broker who wants to shift the cute but old tub. Caveat Emptor was invented for boat buying. Get a survey on anything you intend to buy, ideally from a YDSA affiliated surveyor, that way you are working under British law with a surveyor who you know has the correct qualifications.

Try a 1 week RYA competent crew course (they do them as holidays in the sun all over) - also Martin Northey is a good contact for such in the Algarve. That should dispel the fears over sails. Sure there is more to do with sails but as a near live aboard in the sun, probably your best option (you can always motor most of the time and put the rags up when conditions are gentle). Try the RYA course then if you don't get along with it you know power is the route for you.

Don't let me or anyone else put you off, boating is great fun, but do your research and look at lots of boats before you part with the hard earned, there are bargains out there, but they are hidden behind lots of bad buys, you just have to learn to sniff them out - and the looking is half the fun. Take your time and enjoy the research, learning and choosing. I'm jealous at the thought of retiring to the water - lots of years before I can have that luxury.
Rob

 

[vas]

An advantage of power boats not mentioned so far, is that generally,especially with an aft cabin dutch steel for example, you will have far more living space, inside and out length for length than any sailing boat I have ever been on.

+1M

sorry but I cannot see how ppl manage to live in the dungeons of sailboats or the 2 fixed benches aft with 30+C on their heads all day long. Really for long periods on board for me a mobo is a v.clear winner!

Further, assuming you'll be based on the north coast of Crete, you'll be up for some travelling to reach the islands (unless you fancy Santorini...) as I believe that north coast of Crete is exceptionally crowded and equally boring.

If you're not in a great hurry, I'd suggest you start checking at www.car.gr (mainly) for what's on sale locally as with the current economic climate, taxation, new legislation, ever increasing unemployment, imminent return to drachma (ok, add you own list of evils ) ppl seem to be more keen to sell at reasonable prices. If you could start following the market and wait for Sept-Oct I believe you could get some good deals (and no need for long hauls, shipments and extra costs!)

cheers

V.

 

[tomcourtney]

Seahope
I see you link to a bike place in Stafford, I think I met you once promoting it in the town square, am I correct?

Rob m
I will take a sailing holiday but do not expect to be converted. In my mind a sail is for longer journeys, although I enjoy a journey I'm a definite arriver and with the glut of islands in the Aegean I forsee lots of arrivals.
A 20 year old, give or take a few, Dutch Steel is realistically all I can expect to attain. There will be issues but hopefully with a good surveyor not too many surprises. I am thinking of a trip to Holland to check out what's available and prices, I'm an avid researcher and although I expect to get a good feel for the market I would envisage shortlisting a few boats and employing a surveyor to check them out and recommend which should be fully surveyed. When buying cars I used to prefer 5 yr old Jags, great value for money. I had a mechanic who would find a couple which fitted my budget and checked out as gooduns. I bought 4 xj6's and 1 xjs this way and the fees I paid him were well worth it as I had few problems.

Virtuvas
Full of admiration for your project, I know now who to contact for tech advice
Thanks for the link to www.car.gr, I spent 3 hrs there last night, the prices are certainly keener than the last time I looked there about 8 or 10 months ago, maybe 10 to 20% below UK. Mostly large engined sports cruisers though and a sprinkling of older Princess's with the high flybridge I'm not so keen on.
Couldn't find a single Dutch Steel in my budget, any ideas?
When we travel out to Crete next March / April we may enter Northern Greece via Hungary, Rumania, Bulgaria and FYROM. I'll look out for your sparkling completed craft as we pass Volos We may though be bringing a boat through the canal / river system to Crete in a 3 or 4 hops over a few years

 

[vas]

Virtuvas
Full of admiration for your project, I know now who to contact for tech advice

thanks, but being an architect (not naval!) if you want general house related advice, I'm fine, if you want boat tech, nah, I'm working on it learning from the ppl in here

Thanks for the link to www.car.gr, I spent 3 hrs there last night, the prices are certainly keener than the last time I looked there about 8 or 10 months ago, maybe 10 to 20% below UK. Mostly large engined sports cruisers though and a sprinkling of older Princess's with the high flybridge I'm not so keen on.
Couldn't find a single Dutch Steel in my budget, any ideas?

Did you find ANY Dutch Steel on sale down here? I'm wondering IF this is a sound proposition. I've indeed not seen any and since, to an extent at least, market DOES relate to the particular conditions (be it weather, way of life, etc) I'd expect you seek some feedback from actual owners of dutch steel boats living in the Med. I wonder if the liveaboard parish could be of any help.

When we travel out to Crete next March / April we may enter Northern Greece via Hungary, Rumania, Bulgaria and FYROM. I'll look out for your sparkling completed craft as we pass Volos We may though be bringing a boat through the canal / river system to Crete in a 3 or 4 hops over a few years

You're most welcomed (should be finished by then!)
If you've done this trip before, I'd suggest you change your route and go the Dalmatian coastal route! Did it in September and I'm most impressed!
Ah, tell us where you're going to be based in Crete! I come from Crete and spend a few weeks every year down there mainly around Heraclion and with a quick visit to homeland in Chania.

good luck with the search

V.

 

[bessieaweaver]

Economical Cruise

I think you can find the best deals by visiting the websites of the cruise lines for about 2 months before departure. The ships need to sail fully booked - so they often drop their prices about 2 months before they go to sea. This is if you want to sail on the public cruise ship.

 

[tomcourtney]

Virtuvas
We will be near Bali, between Heraklion and Rethymnon so if you're visiting that way from next year onwards drop me an email
Not one Dutch Steel Cruiser for sale on www.car.gr (looked up to 150k). There are a few boats which interest me eg Fairline Targas but the don't have the same space as a Dutch Steel as I plan a more liveaboard usage with 3 month island hops. Will be posting on the Liveaboard forum after I've explored current postings for relevance.
I've spoken to Pedro owners who have been in South of France in 30 degree temps and have been ok even without aircon. The model i'm interested in with my budget is a Pedro 36, although before CE regulations they are built to cat B standards. I am prepared to get the cutting / welding gear out and replace fixed portholes with opening / vented, sunroof if practical and install aircon to make one more med friendly. I am planning a week or so in Holland to learn what I can about Dutch Steels.
If we're not bringing a boat through the canal / river system we will be travelling in a VW camper or maybe
I'm very keen on the Dalmation coast but i'm still advised to avoid Albania / Kosovo (last time I checked no company would give me insurance at any cost for Albania) so bit of a dead end without doubling back or I could hop a ferry to Bari and then back to Patras. So the Eastern route is favourite taking in Northern Greece. We've done the France, Switzerland Italy route twice now.
What's your thoughts?

 

[[2574]]

Nimbus 3003

Tom,

I haven't read this thread in detail but got the gist of it from your opening post. My recommendation for you is specifically this boat: http://www.apolloduck.co.uk/feature.phtml?id=154112

She used to belong to me back from 1997 to 2002. She's a great sea boat with a single TAMD41B and very economical. Looking at the pictures I suspect that she needs some TLC now but fundamentally she's a strong seaworthy semi-displacement quality boat. I haven't spoken with the current owner since the day we did the deal so I've no purpose in recommending the boat to you other than I know her characteristics well. She'd be good for the french canals as as she's shallow drafted and has a protecting skeg over the centreline propellor.

Rob