Advice PLEASE !! Being asked to leave after 17 years !!

[Rugbyboots]

Good evening. I would really welcome some advice. My father has lived on his boat within a Kent based marina for over 17 years with not a single issue.

He has just been asked for documentation supporting the fact that he dies not ‘live on’ - which he has for years as I say. The marina have been aware of this since day 1.

The letter he received appears to be heading down the route of wanting to remove him - how do we stand in this ??

It seems incredible that they can just do this to a 78 years old man in the middle of a world wide pandemic - it’s come from nowhere ?? Any advice please ... thanks so much

 

[nortada]

Good evening. I would really welcome some advice. My father has lived on his boat within a Kent based marina for over 17 years with not a single issue.

He has just been asked for documentation supporting the fact that he dies not ‘live on’ - which he has for years as I say. The marina have been aware of this since day 1.

The letter he received appears to be heading down the route of wanting to remove him - how do we stand in this ??

It seems incredible that they can just do this to a 78 years old man in the middle of a world wide pandemic - it’s come from nowhere ?? Any advice please ... thanks so much

Sorry to hear this but unless you have paper-work to support his residency on board, I fear you do not have much of a case and probably need to rely on charm and goodwill.

Even though, we are resident in Portugal, we could have as similar problem in the U.K.

The issue is a possibly a local council one who are concerned that your father, with his advancing years, could become a liability to them. I am also 78.

Being in Portugal for 6 months a year doesn’t meet the requirement so the way we get around it is to demonstrate annually, we have another residential address in the U.K. - our daughters.

One thing to consider is making sure that Dad is on the electoral roll for his ‘residential address’ and when necessary returns a postal vote.

Really hope it works out for you OK and please let us know how you get on.

 

[penberth3]

Good evening. I would really welcome some advice. My father has lived on his boat within a Kent based marina for over 17 years with not a single issue.

He has just been asked for documentation supporting the fact that he dies not ‘live on’ - which he has for years as I say. The marina have been aware of this since day 1.

The letter he received appears to be heading down the route of wanting to remove him - how do we stand in this ??

It seems incredible that they can just do this to a 78 years old man in the middle of a world wide pandemic - it’s come from nowhere ?? Any advice please ... thanks so much

Who has asked?

If he's lived there for over 17 years, how can he prove he hasn't lived there? I suspect this is a planning issue.

 

[Yngmar]

He has just been asked for documentation supporting the fact that he dies not ‘live on’ - which he has for years as I say.

Asked for documentation by whom?

And what documentation are they asking for exactly?

 

[Rugbyboots]

Sorry to hear this but unless you have paper-work to support his residency on board, I fear you do not have much of a case and probably need to rely on charm and goodwill.

Even though, we are resident in Portugal, we could have as similar problem in the U.K.

The issue is a possibly a local council one who are concerned that your father, with his advancing years, could become a liability to them. I am also 78.

Being in Portugal for 6 months a year doesn’t meet the requirement so the way we get around it is to demonstrate annually, we have another residential address in the U.K. - our daughters.

One thing to consider is making sure that Dad is on the electoral roll for his ‘residential address’ and when necessary returns a postal vote.

Really hope it works out for you OK and please let us know how you get on.

Hi thanks so much for taking the time to reply. I am going to speak to the marina in the morning and see how it goes. I just think after all these years, they would just leave him be. Dad has never given them a single issue in all that time and to suddenly drop this on him, in the middle of COVID lockdown is appalling. I just don’t understand how they can turn a blind eye, if that’s what they have done for almost 20 years and then suddenly spring they in him. It’s just poor ......

 

[Trident]

Most marinas have no planning for residential use so they allow extended stays on board

in my marina the longest is 16 years! It has to fly under the radar usually which means being registered at a real address and not having post (especially bills and official documents) to the marina

If he has nowhere else add him to your council tax and on to the voter roll at your address and hey presto at no cost to you he has an address and can prove he is just staying aboard sometimes

 

[nortada]

From experience, it is the marina (or caravan site) that seeks the reassurance but it is the local council pushing for this reassurance that somebody who is not contributing to local taxes will not become their liability.

What is needed is a contract that clearly states that permanent residency is permitted. The precedence of turning a blind eye won’t do.

Very hard to get so the easiest trategy is to demonstrate that you have a permanent address elsewhere. They really want utility bills but pension correspondence and tax returns, with an address, a voting returns can work. Means you have to get somebody, family or friend to collude in giving you an address but be careful if you use a single persons address as you could compromise any single occupants community charge concessions.

Redirecting all mail to that address of convenience would also be a good move.

Much easier these days as the internet is increasingly becoming the primary form of communication.

For older folk it does mean they need some computer literacy.

 

[LittleSister]

The boatyard may have come under pressure from the local authority, or perhaps be thinking of selling up, and hence want to be able to show they have no (formal) liveaboards.

It would be good if you or your father could discreetly find out whether they just want him to prove that he is 'officially' resident elsewhere (to give them 'plausible denial'), or whether they have taken a decision to get rid of either just him or all liveaboards in the yard.

Generally speaking, unless they own a berth with residential planning permission, liveaboards have no legal right to continue doing so in any particular place.

Many boatyards have tolerated a small number of liveaboards for years, usually provided they keep a low profile thus enabling the yard to deny knowledge. Sadly the hugely increasing number of liveaboards, and wannabe liveaboards, due to the housing crisis, has made that model difficult to sustain. A big influx in recent years of people with little experience of boating and, in some cases, lacking social graces and/or discretion, has made the 'problem' increasingly difficult to ignore.

A friend had been living aboard for some significant time at a southern England boatyard. The boatyard knew he was doing so (there were probably one or two others similar), but he'd a boat there for quite while before he moved aboard, kept his head down when he did, didn't make the boat or the shore adjacent to his berth look like a tip, was polite and got on well with the owners of the boats adjacent, who even appreciated having someone around to keep an eye on their boats while they were away. Unfortunately, someone posted on social media that this boatyard was somewhere that you could liveaboard, so suddenly they started receiving a succession of people turning up wanting to do so. The boatyard got cold feet, and (perhaps even thinking he had something to do with it) asked my friend to leave.

I know another waterway where liveaboards have become a serious problem, by virtue of the vast increase in the amount of them, and especially the number of them that have drink, drug or mental health problems, creating misery for neighbours on shore, and other liveaboards and leisure boaters in the vicinity, and giving liveaboards in general a bad name.

 

[Caraway]

Census on March 21st. If you need to register him as living somewhere else that would be a helpful start.
Electoral roll another good point of action.

It may not help if they are being pushed by local authorities.

 

[Mistroma]

Hi thanks so much for taking the time to reply. I am going to speak to the marina in the morning and see how it goes. I just think after all these years, they would just leave him be. Dad has never given them a single issue in all that time and to suddenly drop this on him, in the middle of COVID lockdown is appalling. I just don’t understand how they can turn a blind eye, if that’s what they have done for almost 20 years and then suddenly spring they in him. It’s just poor ......

I must admit that I'd be loathe to force the marina to do anything or require them to admit anything. It does sound as if someone has started something and the marina need to tick box from a legal standpoint.

Perhaps a very light touch initially and mention that you've been asked what type of documentation would be best to meet their requirements. If they come up with general stuff about letters from HMRC etc. sent to another address, registered as a voter and so on. I would be tempted to update a few things to get some suitable letters if time permits (bank, HMRC, electoral roll etc.).

The marina must know that he lives there full time and may well bend over backwards to give you an easy way out. You will know something is up if they suggest really difficult things or specifically point out that he is always on his boat. At least you will know it is going to be more of a problem if they choose the latter option.

 

[Rugbyboots]

Most marinas have no planning for residential use so they allow extended stays on board

in my marina the longest is 16 years! It has to fly under the radar usually which means being registered at a real address and not having post (especially bills and official documents) to the marina

If he has nowhere else add him to your council tax and on to the voter roll at your address and hey presto at no cost to you he has an address and can prove he is just staying aboard sometimes

Thanks so much .... i did wonder if I could do this. That makes sense .... I think you may have provided us with a solution to the problem

 

[nortada]

Thanks so much .... i did wonder if I could do this. That makes sense .... I think you may have provided us with a solution to the problem

As this situation could hit many of us, please advise how you get on.

 

[Rugbyboots]

Of course I will. I am waiting for the marina to call me

 

[Bobc]

i think you may be wise to spend a couple hundred quid and get some legal advice. You might have some grounds based on the fact that he's been living onboard under the same contract for many years.

 

[syvictoria]

i think you may be wise to spend a couple hundred quid and get some legal advice. You might have some grounds based on the fact that he's been living onboard under the same contract for many years.

Sadly, I suspect not - if there's no element of council tax included in the mooring fee, then surely there's no right to reside there, regardless of what the individual marina may consider acceptable and/or allow? I wouldn't imagine that an existing 'right' can be demonstrated here, assuming that all that's been in place to date is a non-residential mooring contract?

As has already been suggested, hopefully an alternative 'official' address will satisfy whoever has raised an issue in this instance.

 

[nortada]

i think you may be wise to spend a couple hundred quid and get some legal advice. You might have some grounds based on the fact that he's been living onboard under the same contract for many years.

Sorry, having been in a similar situation, I have to agree with syvictoria, this will not be resolved by legal confrontation. More likely would it be a waste of money and worse still result in hardening attitudes.

As many here, including me, have found the best option is to be seen to comply and provide your father with an ‘alternative residence’ but, of course, he will spend ‘much’ of his time in board. In practise nothing will change but the marina will have the excuse to turn a blind eye.

The real elephant in the room is, what is driving this situation

If the owners want to sell the marina with ‘vacant possession’ - big problem. Having established the facts, the only possibility would be to see if your father could be established as a special case - bit of a long shot.

Best of luck with this. I fear more and more people are going to find themselves in similar situations.

 

[Rugbyboots]

Sorry, having been in a similar situation, I have to agree with syvictoria, this will not be resolved by legal confrontation. More likely would it be a waste of money and worse still result in hardening attitudes.

As many here, including me, the best option is to be seen to comply and provide your father with an ‘alternative residence’ but, of course, he will spend ‘much’ of his time in board. In practise nothing will change but the marina will have the excuse to turn a blind eye.

The real elephant in the room is, what is driving this situationIf the owners want to sell the marina with ‘vacant possession’ - big problem. Having established the facts, the only possibility would be to see if your father could be established as a special case - bit of a long shot.

Best of luck with this. I fear more and more people are going to find themselves in similar situations.

 

[Rugbyboots]

Thanks so much - I really do appreciate all your views. I spoke with the marina this morning and the new manager appeared to be very understanding. I pointed out that he has lived there for 17 years and has signed the same contract this year as he did in 2004. I pointed out how ‘unfair’ it would be to turn a blind eye for 17 years and then suddenly decide that they now want to invoke the very policy they themselves have decided to ignore for so many years...... e mail sent ..... watch this space

 

[Poignard]

Thanks so much - I really do appreciate all your views. I spoke with the marina this morning and the new manager appeared to be very understanding. I pointed out that he has lived there for 17 years and has signed the same contract this year as he did in 2004. I pointed out how ‘unfair’ it would be to turn a blind eye for 17 years and then suddenly decide that they now want to invoke the very policy they themselves have decided to ignore for so many years...... e mail sent ..... watch this space

Well you have approached the problem in a very sensible way.

 

[V1701]

I'll be interested to hear the outcome of this and sincerely hope for your Dad that it's a positive one. There have been a few UK marinas, including the one I'm in, who've recently started to clamp down on or disallow outright any living aboard even after openly "tolerating" it for years. What with living full time in the EU no longer possible for many who might wish to do so, living on the canals might end up being the only viable option in the UK for living afloat. Social media really doesn't help as already stated above, neither does the utterly shambolic state of housing in the UK...