Advice on sails please

[Colin_S]

Whilst out as crew on a yacht in a club race last weekend in very light winds, we were almost completely becalmed for a good half hour. During that time, which was on a downwind run, the spinnaker stayed completely collapsed despite all our efforts. Being a total newbie, I could only follow what advice I was being given when I went forward for a while to relieve another crew member who had been struggling to get some air into it.
Pondering on the problem, I had a thought a while ago that perhaps the mainsail was in part shielding the spinnaker and lowering it may have helped the situation. Would this have helped or am I a million miles out?

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[Richard_Woods]

No you are correct. The mainsail will blanket the spinnaker. I sail a catamaran and when cruising downwind I usually lower the mainsail and sail just under the spi. That way the autopilot can still steer the boat. I find I go about 1/2 knot slower without the mainsail, but the boat will sail itself.

But most people won't do that when racing, so the only thing to do is to head up onto a reach and try and get some apparent wind that way.

<hr width=100% size=1>Richard Woods of Woods Designs for quality sailing catamaran designs
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[PeteMcK]

No point in having it blanketed but by the sound of it, your helmsman should have headed up away from a dead run and got some pressure on the kite. First rule in a ghosting situation is to keep moving. Even if you can make only 20 or 30 degrees towards the mark, it's better than being stopped. Second rule is to make sure you stay between the opposition and the next mark, i.e., don't forget to gybe once in a while! Dead downwind is dead, dead slow in light winds. There's almost never 'no wind'; get someone to light a fag or watch a lighter flame flicker to find the angle, and then get the kite opened up to it.

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[Colin_S]

Fags and lighters were lit. We were still making headway but very slowly, particularly as we were in a river and against the tide. We had plenty of time for a chat to a guy fishing at anchor as we crept past him. There must have been a dozen or so in the same situation and ours was probably the last spinnaker to give up the ghost.
Given the fact that we were still (barely) moving and this was power from the mainsail alone I just wondered if removing the blanketing effect of the mainsail would have powered up the spinnaker and improved our speed.

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[Talbot]

Listen to richard, there is some danger he might know what he is talking about /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

In light winds I frequently roll away the main to allow the lighter sail the full benefit of what little wind there is.

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[Colin_S]

Thanks, and to Richard of course!

With any luck there just may be a bit more wind around for the next race this Sunday. If not I shall find a tactful way to offer some advice to the skipper.



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[claymore]

One of the problems of doing something radical like dropping the main is that should the wind fill in a bit when the time comes to raise it, you might have
a struggle to get it back up. Sods law will dictate that this happens and you increase the likelihood of something going wrong at the leeward mark when you would be dropping the spinnaker and raising the main. You could also do without the disruption caused by lowering and raising it - even on a cruiser/racer all movement should be kept to a minimum. Better as others have said to get a helm to sail the boat properly

<hr width=100% size=1><font color=purple>regards
Claymore<font color=purple>
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[SilverBreeze]

At last, something I know something about:
Heel to Windward!
Works on 470 dinghy, Fireball dinghy, J-24, Benny 31.7, even a Hunter Impala.

Gravity keeps the kite filled. May need a temporary preventer ( or, in a dinghy, strong crew) to keep the boom up in the air.

Hard on the driver with constant lee helm, hard on the crew (sit still and hike out to windward and heel!) but it will work.





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[Twister_Ken]

Maybe not a million miles out

But a fair few.

If you were sailing dead downwind, then the kite should have been poled back so that it was clear of the lee of the mainsail, with the sheet being brought forward and inboard.

If the course was not dead downwind, then as others have said you should have come up to put some air in the klite and got going even if it was at a rotten angle.

Good trick with a kite in light airs is to take off the usual sheet (and lazy guy if the boat has twin lines) and replace it with something much thinner and lighter. Asking dead air to fill a kite and lift 20lbs of sodden sheet is a bit much. Also the trimmer can trim by taking the sheet diirect from the clew to hand, and from a point crouched down by the leeward shrouds.

Don't dispose of the main, because even the slightest puff coming along will make it useful. Plus if you drop it and then need to hoist it when the wind strengthens, you might need to head upwind to do it. Not a good idea on a downhill leg.

Of course, none of the above matters if you are cruising.

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[Colin_S]

Re: Maybe not a million miles out

Cheers Claymore and Ken. The pole was moved about, the 2 sheets removed and changed for a single light one and attempts were made by hand and I also had a go with the boat hook at pushing the sail out further to try and get some air in it. I did manage to get it filled once for a short while but the breeze was so light I was holding it very easily in one hand and it collapsed again a few minutes later with no course changes, etc. Perhaps the breeze really was too light in this case, bearing in mind we were way up the river and not on the sea. Boat was a 34' something or the other - must remember to find out what next time out.

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[Colin_S]

Think I've got my head around this one Bob, remembering all this sailing stuff is new to me. The boom did have a preventer on it so keeping that up would not be a problem. Assuming the wind is coming almost from astern but slightly to port, which side would you have the boom?

Also, another point to indicate how light the wind was, it was necessary for a crew member to hold the mainsail boom out in position to get the max. out of what there was, not just us but a good few of the other boats were employing this method too.

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[Twister_Ken]

Re: Maybe not a million miles out

The other thing to bear in mind with going downwind in very light airs is that a slight puff will get you going, but then as the puff dies, the boat speed becomes greater than the wind speed, so the kite immediately collapses again.

It's nothing to worry about, as long as it's happeneing to your competitors as well.

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[Colin_S]

Re: Maybe not a million miles out

Makes sense and I had figured that one out - learning fast.

As I mentioned above ours was the last kite to collapse - everyone was in the same boat, so to speak. The only yachts that were overtaking us were those that had thrown in the towel and were motoring back knowing they could not finish in the alloted time.

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