Advice on beaching and grounding exploring estuarys

[steve yates]

I'm thinking of where to explore when the the weather gets a bit wetter, really fancy going to raven glass
where I have seen photos of boats left sitting at low tide, and walking over to the pub
I've also seen pictures on Google Earth of boats alongside a pier at Askham in Furness and there is a small port of some kind in million, so exploring the duddon estuary looks interesting. I'd also like to try and get to Arnside if that's possible. Sailing out of Maryport, the Solway is a must to go and explore, especially as it says uncharted. I fancy sailing into moricombe bay and up to Annan and Dumfries , well kingholm.
Jumble duck once told me about little bays up the estuary you could run a small boat into and beach, and I'm intrigued by the idea of doing this. Just sailing somewhere till I can't get any farther, or sailing into,bays and lighting a fire on the beach waiting for the tides return.
Problem is, I know nothing about it, and don't want to lose the boat the first time I try it by doing something obviously dumb.
So I.m looking for advice on how to approach stuff like this, particularly tips on how to ensure you will come to rest on something soft enough, and not an old fridge or a rock, or on the edge of a deep gut finding my boat tipping over into it!
It's an 18ft lifting keeler, a Bradwell 18, so it has a little stub keel which should settle into mud to sit upright, but on hard ground it will tip a bit and sit at a 30 degree angle or so. Bearable, if it tips to the side with the long bunk.
Is it a normal thing to do? I've read Charles stocks books and he seemed to do it quite a bit down in Essex.
What should I look out for? I'd not be wanting to ground until an hour or so before or after high tide, to make sure I can get off again. If I lay an anchor out, and ground, is there a danger of swinging again when the water comes back and perhaps grounding to far into shore to come off again if heading to neaps?
Should I lay out the little grapnel kedge anchor too? Even if just to stop her being washed further ashore instead of refloating?

Would an old fashioned lead line be very useful for this for checking what the ground was like before drying out?

Should I have some sort of punt pole to try and push myself back off from grounding unintentionally while trying to find a channel through the bars?

Is there a danger of the boat being banged off the ground while waiting to float off?

There is an echo sounder on the boat, I know it goes to E when it reckons there is not enough water under the hull. ( don't ask )

Is leaving the keel down but not tied off viable? So it starts to bump and lift up when we are hitting shallows? Or will I just end up losing the keel?

She is about 1.8 m draught with the keel down and 40 cm with it up.

Am I likely to jump out the boat and get stuck in the bloody sand or mud in any of these estuaries?

Any advice appreciated, and particularly if anyone has sailed in these areas.

Thanks.

 

[C08]

Drying out is great but as you are aware has a number of dangers which are ok if you watch out for them but would catch you out if you are not careful.
One thing to watch is where there is a channel winding out to sea the banks may be very steep and if you dried out on the side of one of these even though it may only be say 8ft deep the boat could roll onto its side and the incoming tide flood it before it floats off.
Also if you dry out in a narrow channel there may be a fierce tide coming back in and you would probably be facing stern to the incoming tide, which may not be good.
You need a fish finder to show the nature and profile of the bottom rather than just depths. It would not be good to dry out on a stump or isolated rock.
A good examination of the chart will show if the bottom is rocky etc.
There is good sense in just beaching the boat at half tide as you can see what is about where you go aground rather than waiting for rocks etc to appear as the tide recedes.
A good long pole is good for prodding underneith before the boat settles.
Keel is best kept up.
A good plan is that when you have dried out walk the anchor out to sea behind you so that if the wind picks up your boat is not going to get blown onshore as she floats off.

As long as you take due care then you should have a great time-have fun and good luck.

 

[steve yates]

See what I said about doing something dumb? It never even occurred to me to make sure I was pointing bow to the incoming tide when I dried out!
Thanks

 

[Mud]

Hi, you've asked a lot of questions, but I'll try & help with a few.

There's some old pilotage notes for Ravenglass here... web.onetel.net.uk/~davidmbooth/ravenglass.htm which may be of use to you. I was going to visit a few months ago but had engine problems.

A few of good places for sailors to visit are Barrow, Roa Island & Piel Island, where you can pick up buoys. Try googling them to find out opening hours for the pubs.

Morecambe bay is pretty choppy and tides run fast.



A friend of mine sailed to Arnside in his Sailfish 18 this year. I believe he ran aground quite often. A boat pole can be used to pick up buoys and push off from places.

When you are dried out in a river & the tide comes in, it's not a pleasant experience in small boats, imho. You're dragged across any sort of stones or shells. My W25 with bilge keels has a knack of getting the rising chain caught up on one of the keels.

There's loads of mud in the rivers (hence my handle). Morecambe bay is largely sandy but I have seen big rocks on the sea floor, especially at Mort bank. Mud can definitely be dangerous, I know of a few occasions this year alone people have been lucky to escape with their lives, just in a few mile stretch of river where I keep my boat. Using a big stick (or boat pole) may help when walking around river beds whilst the tide is out.

 

[nemodreams]

If it keeps raining there ar some good pubs in the Cotswolds !

 

[Seajet]

I don't sail in or know the Morecambe area, but a little of its reputation for fast returning tides...

I moor on soft mud in Chichester Harbour; some bits can be walked on with just wellies, most of it is so soft one will go in thigh deep or more; definitely dangerous, plenty of people have been killed in mud over the years.

One tip around here - dunno about your area - is that areas with green weed covering are usually firmer to walk on; and where there are little streams cut through the mud, the bottom of those is usually firmer.

I would suggest you stay aboard and just look around for your first tries, partly for your safety and also to keep an eye on your boat.

The comment about avoiding drying out on the edge of a channel is very important, toppling into a deep ditch could spoil your day or even cancel it entirely !

The long pole sounds a good idea.

When following windy shallow channels, remember the old saying ' Hug a bight, shun a spit '.

In other words keep to the outside of turns where there'll be most water, avoid the inside points of turns where shallows build.

Being stuck out on the mud is usually great, especially if you like watching birds & wildlife.

If you walk on mud or similar alone, take a mobile in a tupperware box and a torch !

Have fun,

Andy

 

[EdWingfield]

Calibrate your depth sounder by gently touching bottom on a rising tide to get a zero.
Kippford is a worthwhile visit.
Solway is said to have some quicksand patches. (I don't know if that is true) Bloody scary things!
the grapnel is not good at anything other than folding. Any other type will be better.

 

[Gwylan]

It can be terribly good fun. But!

Always a but!

Places you do not know or have not seen at low water can be a bit challenging and contain the unexpected. I go with the remark regarding the sloping banks of channels and the need for caution. Made this one on a sand bank in the Bristol Channel whilst taking a short cut and running out of water. The tide can mean you lose as much as 2m of water in an hour there. I say the survey from 1870 was out of date and I was 15 minutes later than I should have been - but the angle got very precarious.

Think carefully before you jump out of the boat. Test the sand and make sure you can get back into the boat!

Do set your alarm clock to wake you ahead of the incoming tide, just in case you do get into any problems. Best to be ready to move if you have to take action, rather than scrabbling around looking for your shoes, trousers or torch.

Expect to be 'banged about' as the boat comes to rest and it lifts off. Some places are much worse than others and the only way you know is experience. It can become quite unpleasant and has made me hope that the boat is engineered to take this kind of hammering. St Ives is our nemesis for this.

Have a spare anchor in the cockpit, nothing fancy with 10m of chain and maybe 20m of line - in case the main anchor starts dragging with the changing tide direction. Buys you time as the whole thing goes pear shaped.

Be very suspicious of any odd moorings. There is no certainty what is normally attached to them or when they were last serviced. We had an event after picking up a nice looking float that turned out to be connected to a piece of rotten poly rope that was buried in the sand. Very disconcerting to be connected to something that you believe is attached to the seabed and then watch the land slipping by at an increasing speed.
This happened to us as we were hiding from a gale near Roa Island. Focusses the mind!

Also if overnighting put an anchor light out. It will not stop fishermen taking a short cut from running you down, but you will have the moral high ground whilst filling in the insurance claim form.

All of these things I have learned about to my cost over the years.

 

[Seajet]

Calibrate your depth sounder by gently touching bottom on a rising tide to get a zero.
Kippford is a worthwhile visit.
Solway is said to have some quicksand patches. (I don't know if that is true) Bloody scary things!
the grapnel is not good at anything other than folding. Any other type will be better.

Not wanting to confuse the issue, but some points need adding I feel.

The folding grapnel anchor is indeed useless in mud !

HOWEVER, I carry one as a kedge on holiday cruises, along with my trusty Bruce bower which has been superb for 37 years ( genuine 7,5kg Bruce, medium displacement 22' boat).

The grapnel has 2 functions; it makes a very good ' angel ' in folded state, lowered halfway down the bower warp to help the Bruce in strong conditions.

Also, the grapnel will get a toe hold through weed onto rock, ie in emergency situations in places I wouldn't choose to be anchoring - and where normal anchors like the Bruce, or Rocna for that matter, probably won't grip.

The grapnel is weak at the hinge pins so would only give breathing time to sort things out, but that could be jolly handy.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Kippford is a worthwhile visit.

The OP has been there! He even met a strange local forumite in the pub.

 

[Halo]

I think you have most of the bases covered. I found it best to stay aboard in soft mud and seek the flat bottom of pools if possible on the first trip to a location. Then observe the area as the tide recedes. On a subsequent tide you can possibly drive her onto a suitable drying area at half tide allowing you to get off. Sand is best but can be hard if there are waves or wash.
If I had an 18 footer with such a shallow draft I would go up some canals. For example you could drop the mast at Glasson and go up the Lancaster. Or go up the Rufforth branch at Douglas to the Leeds Liverpool. I did this in my W25 and came out at Goole then went up to Whitby. Great fun
If you do get off remember your feet will be filthy so have some wellies with string attached (no sheep jokes please) so you can kick them off when you get aboard then pull them in. You then need a bucket or box to stow em
Hope this helps
Martin

 

[AliM]

I am surprised that no one has mentioned Dylan's films. He has mainly dried out on the east coast, but he has nosed up lots of narrow creeks in just the way the OP wants to do. What Dylan doesn't know about sailing in shallow water and drying out on mud banks isn't worth knowing. And anyway, his films are so worth watching! If you are not aware of them, look for Dylan Winter here or Google for 'keep turning left'.

 

[CAPTAIN FANTASTIC]

Drying out can be fun; I have a bilge keeler and we regularly go to places where most can't, however, I am very careful to ensure that I either have seen where I will be drying when the tide is out, or I ask the locals. Never drying in channels with fast flowing water unless you are fully familiar with the bottom and the slope of the channel. You will need two good anchors in case you have to use them to stabilise and to hold the boat by digging in one on the port and the other on the starboard. Wellies is a must; walking on mud to reach land can be fun but I have also been in situations where I would definately will not repeat.

 

[KellysEye]

CO8 that's good advice.

 

[Tam Lin]

I went to Ravenglass on the narrow gauge railway once. It was closed.

 

[JumbleDuck]

I went to Ravenglass on the narrow gauge railway once. It was closed.

Even when Ravenglass is open, it's closed. We had a week's holiday there once, and it was probably the most boring week of my life.

 

[dylanwinter]

I am surprised that no one has mentioned Dylan's films. He has mainly dried out on the east coast, but he has nosed up lots of narrow creeks in just the way the OP wants to do. What Dylan doesn't know about sailing in shallow water and drying out on mud banks isn't worth knowing. And anyway, his films are so worth watching! If you are not aware of them, look for Dylan Winter here or Google for 'keep turning left'.

thanks AliM,

I do do a fair bit of bottom clonking and deliberate grounding - although mostly in bilge keelers with steel keels. I used to own an eboatt with a drop keel and hit the bottom a lot. On a light boat going slowly I am sure that touching the bottom(fnar fnar) will do no damage at all to the keel mechanism.

Ditto grounding the hull on sand, mud or gravel. It usually pays to try to see your chosen spot before it is covered with water.

Ideally when going up rivers you want to be at the mouth at low tide and then ride the ride upstream bumping the bottom as you go. You can see the banks as you go and keep an eye open for a suitable place to ground. Remember where it is and then carry on up stream until about an hour before high water when I usually chicken out and head back downstream to my chosen landing place - by which time the tide will have ebbed a bit and then just run her ashore.

I always have a peastick with me for sounding the bottom. Echo sounders at these extrele low depths are pretty useless. You get double bounces as the signal goes to the bottom, backup, boiunces off the hull down to the bottom and then back to the receiver so the water seems twice as deep as it really is. In muddy places the signal seems to just bounce off the silt laden water and also give a poor reading.

When going up eiver I just roll out a bit of genoa and use that to keep me in the middle of the stream

we also paddle a fair bit

this is a speeded up film of us going up the Earn in scotland. It has a reall boulder strewn bottom but the plate hitting the odd tree truck or boulder is not going to do any harm. I use the centre plate as a way of showing that my hull is well clear of the bottom.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJwVgra0a2o

katie L is perfect for creek crawling as she has a kick up rudder, two little stub keels so she settles level, a kick up outboard and a pivoted centre plate.

In my opinion there are few pleasures to match drifting up a new river - not knowing what is around the corner.

Incidentally - top tip here

if you look at google earth streetview you can often see rivers from the road

bridges are really useful for this

D

 

[Tam Lin]

Even when Ravenglass is open, it's closed. We had a week's holiday there once, and it was probably the most boring week of my life.

It was some years back when we were staying with our children in Ambleside and we thought that we would go to the seaside for the day. We drove to the railway then took that to Ravenglass, quite an expedition. When we got to Ravenglass we headed for the sea but it was out! Walking down the street was like being in one of those old Westerns, I swear there was tumbleweed blowing past. It was one of those days that we only seem to get in August, grey, cold, windy so we huddled up behind a wall on the beach and ate our sandwiches then decided to go home. That day has gone down in family folklore! What an anticlimax!

 

[Capt. Clueless]

I'd also like to try and get to Arnside if that's possible.

What a lovely place.(I had an elderly relative who lived there) However the tide comes in, in one flow. The hooter sounds and the Water floods in from Morecambe bay and comes up the estuary on a bore. Come to think of it, I'm certain I have never seen a sailing boat at Arnside.

 

[JumbleDuck]

I always have a peastick with me for sounding the bottom. Echo sounders at these extrele low depths are pretty useless. You get double bounces as the signal goes to the bottom, backup, boiunces off the hull down to the bottom and then back to the receiver so the water seems twice as deep as it really is. In muddy places the signal seems to just bounce off the silt laden water and also give a poor reading.

I agree about the usefulness of a stick, but playing around in shallow water is somewhere I think a whirlie echo sounder can also be very good. My old Westerly had a fin and bulb keel, and the bulb showed up nicely on the sounder as well as the bottom. Double bounce echoes were easy to see and I could tell at a glance what sort of clearance I had. Not that I ever dried her out (intentionally - ahem) except on scrubbing grids and against harbour walls, but I am a great believer in anchoring in as shallow water as is practical.