Advice on a Boat - Cranchi 21 Ellipse

[ontheplane]

Hi there,

I've been shown a Cranchi Ellipse - it's a 21' boat in good condition apart from a few problems (which I'll come to) and looks to be a much better boat than the Bayliner / Maxum type cuddy's that seem to be roughly the same money. Now I have a budget, but I can justify this boat IF I can work out what it's going to be worth once everything's done.

The boat is winterised at the mo so I can't take her for a waterborne spin without shelling out for a service and lift and so forth.

So...

1) Has anyone any experience of these boats, and what they are like. What is the ride over choppy water like?
2) Are they actually any better made than the American stuff or is it just "surface gloss"
3) It has a 5.0 injected Volvo - other than the risers which I know about are there any known problems with these engines?
4) There aren't many on the market - so does this mean they aren't much cop?

The boat is a 1999 and is not listed on any of the usual boat sales sites.

Now the problems....

1) No trailer - not a biggie at least I can factor in a known cost for that
2) Cabin stripped bare - a big deal - these boats I believe had a nicely trimmed cabin - this one has been stripped to bare fibreglass - one wonders why? Also, with no trim panels for a trimmer to work from, could anyone ever trim this out again as nicely as it was from new?

I have to work backwards. Start at what I think I would get for the boat once it's back up together when and if I decide to sell, then work out how much it will cost to put right, in order to get to a price to offer allowing a bit as well for the trouble...

So - a 1999 Cranchi Ellipse 21 with a 5.0l volvo Gi + duoprop in good (but perhaps not perfect) condition - how much anyone?

Then, how much do people think it would cost to have a complete from scratch re-trim done on a cabin? (And I mean from scratch!)

Cheers

 

[Spi D]

If this is the same that needs 2x risers, 2x manifolds and a FWC I'd walk unless the boat is extremely cheap.

Rather pick one in good nick, ready to go. To my taste outbord before i/o.

 

[ontheplane]

That's the thing.

We don't KNOW it needs risers - but general concensus is that after 8yr on a raw water engine they may be shot...

However, from the other thread, it seems that certainly the risers aren't huge money (hundreds not thousands) and the FWC was just for my information - it doesn't NEED to be converted, I just wondered if it made economic sense....


And yes, if I get it, it will be cheap - but I need to know how cheap it needs to be....

 

[paultallett]

That's the thing.

We don't KNOW it needs risers - but general concensus is that after 8yr on a raw water engine they may be shot...

However, from the other thread, it seems that certainly the risers aren't huge money (hundreds not thousands) and the FWC was just for my information - it doesn't NEED to be converted, I just wondered if it made economic sense....


And yes, if I get it, it will be cheap - but I need to know how cheap it needs to be....

Can't commet on the boat but don't risk it with the risers....

Get them from here www.trickettmarineproducts.co.uk and they won't cost you a fortune but you will be able to sleep knowing they won't end up costing you a new engine.

 

[andyjcox1]

I have looked at a couple of these to buy, they seem to be going for between 12-18k depending on condition. I think the 5.0l petrol puts quite a few off but the ones I've seen have been nice boats. As you said, I would want to know why it had no interior, as they are generally well put togther.

it may be worth a punt if you could get it for say 6k

 

[Chris_d]

The lack of interior is a big issue, did it sink? has it been stripped out for extensive front end hull repairs? fire damage? there can't be a good reason can there. If its a 10-15K boat I'd want it for no more than half that, remember unless the interior is refitted to factory standards it will always be worth a lot less than a standard boat. Sounds like a definite one to run away from unless you like projects.

 

[ontheplane]

Thing is there are only 3 on the public market and this one....

The other 3 are out of budget, and this one might be in budget even once the work's done...

Nice link to that site thanks - do you have to replace the manifolds AND the risers or just the risers???

Even so - it looks a lot cheaper than a FWC system!

 

[ontheplane]

Yes - I did wonder why it was all stripped out myself - seems an odd thing to do...

Hadn't actually thought about the major hull damage thing - I just thought that someone stripped it to re-trim and then didn't!

Current owner reckons it was like it when he bought it - and thinks they are all like that...

I have suggested he rings Cranchi to find out that he is mistaken on that issue...

 

[Spi D]

..stripped.. - and thinks they are all like that...

Not really:

 

[ontheplane]

Is that what it should look like??

Thanks for posting that - more ammo to me I think (assuming I even put in an offer).

 

[Spi D]

Depending on the design and build, it may have originally been made of the moulded outer hull and an inner moulded liner. Bonded together this forms a very strong boat.

If any part of this structural layout has been compromised the boat is no longer as the manufacturer meant it to be. Bad - in more ways.

Fitting the cabin out takes thorough planning which you, ofcourse, are fully capable of since you know that you want from it. Selecting bits and pieces, tools and procedures is crucial to a satisfactory result - and less than that means wasting money.

If you look closely you'll notice that the original finish isn't too impressive...

 

[MapisM]

this one has been stripped to bare fibreglass

Are you sure it has? I mean, did you see signs (glue, screw holes, whatever) of previous fitting?
I'm asking because I have a funny feeling that the Ellipse could be ordered also with no cabin trim, for those who wanted to use the bow just as a big locker and save some quids.
Not 100% sure, though. I'd send an email to the builder, surely they can confirm/deny what I'm saying.
And if you have the HIN, they might be able to tell you about the specific configuration of that boat.

 

[ontheplane]

That's really interesting MapisM - That's what the owner is saying - he says it was like it when he bought it...

I did wonder why anyone would buy it like that - but if that's the case it makes some sense.

I will get the HIN

 

[oGaryo]

have you thought about calling Abersoch Land and Sea for advice they were very helpful when we purchased a Fletcher 19gts from them and I believe they focus on the Cranchi brand

 

[ontheplane]

I have,

They said that Cranchi don't keep any trim for that long - boat's been out of build too long.

They didn't mention anything about the cabin being able to be ordered with or without cabin trim though.

It certainly will make sense and explain a lot if what MapisM has said is true.

I've been quoted £1200 to re-trim a cabin but £2000 if there is no old trim to use to make templates from.

 

[ontheplane]

Also, back to one of the original questions - what is this boat actually LIKE as in -

Is it good in a choppy sea.

What's the build quality like

If I get a good one (or make a good one from a less good one) do they hold their money well??

What is a top notch one in excellent condition yr 2000 actually worth in the current market?


Thanks

 

[ontheplane]

Anyone know what this boat is like?

Good / Bad / Indifferent?

There don't seem to be many about

 

[Spi D]

Do not know the boat in question but..

No boat this size goes like a magic carpet in choppy seas unless desinged specifically for it. That kind of design places the seats far back, leaves the front/cuddy unusable and has an extreme hull deadrise. Unstable at rest, lively at speed, tendency to chinewalk and fast - very fast.

The Cranchi is as good as any in the segment. Deep V front running to a flatter modified V at the transom is common design and blends good properties of both worlds.

Italian boats are often well designed, nice build without excess, and fairly good finish.

Designed for it's home market (the Med) it may not completely fit the bill of UK climate and conditions.

Just my 2...

 

[Davy_S]

I don;t know if it's any help or not, but I had the Cranchi 21 weekender (an older boat) same hull I believe. I had a smaller engine AQ145B (a little underpowered) I found the ride into a head sea ie short chop that we have a dry ride but a little slappy, following sea was very good and would leap a wave and land safely, very reasuring. Have a very good look at the transom and transom shield area, the drainage was bad on ours, always left water in the bilge near the transom which has resulted in damage and flexing of the shield allowing water ingress in reverse. May not be the case with later models.

 

[MapisM]

Good / Bad / Indifferent?

Rather good, in my (limited) first hand experience.
I tried one of them in the early 90s, when I was looking for a lake boat suitable also for some waterski.
She did fit my requirements, and felt pretty solid for its size, even in a rather windy day with some very short breaking waves.
Of course, nothing as bad as what the ocean can throw at you, but more than enough to make the ride very unconfortable for many 20 footers.
Not so for the small Cranchi, which handled that nicely.
And if you're interested, her pull and wake is good enough also for monoski, though of course not for a slalom course.
The only drawback I can think of is that she was rather sensible to weight distribution and/or crosswind.
Mind, the one I tried had no trim tabs, and I think that most, if not all, were built without them.
In fact, she definitely doesn't need them to jump on the plane, but if you plan to cruise often in xwind you might want to fit them.
Particularly if you're cruising alone, which doesn't give you the chance to move people around to level the ride.
Eventually, I choose another boat, but mainly because I found a better deal.
Good luck with your search!