Advice for a potential newbie

[caz]

Hi,

This is my first posting and I'm really after some general advice from you guys.

I currently own a jetski and my friend owns a Fletcher Arrowflash. After having a few goes with the arrowflash I've been considering moving up to buying a boat myself. For me to really gain anything over and above the jetski and the Arrowflash, I've been considering buying a 4 beth motor crusier.

I've recently had a windfall which would enable me to spend around 40-50K, which in theory would allow me to buy a new boat, i.e Sealine S23. My questions are:
(1) should I really be considering buying a new boat with my very limited experience. I will be enrolling on the RYA day skipper course both theory and practical and am planning to have completed the theory prior to buying.
(2) should I hold out on doing the practical RYA to do on my own boat or should I go ahead with that prior to buying

Any advice appreciated

 

[jfm]

IMHO the practical DaySkipper will be much more useful than the theory, so do that first. Probably on a school boat

With regard to boat it all depends. The obvious alternative is something bigger but secondhand for the same £££. Most people trade up for a larger boat before too long, so you could miss out a few steps and go bigger now. A 23 footer will allow you weekend/coastal cruising but will get pretty uncomfortable in seas not much bigger than would make the arrowflash uncomfortable, whereas in a 30 footer you could withstand another 1-2 points of beaufort.

You will need to buy kit usually, so allow for a few thousand £ on top of the boat price

Where are you going to keep it?

 

[tcm]

Ooh yes, buy a huge and monster boat. Altho, like you we used other smally boats and rented etc, first boat we bought was over 40 feet, and others have done the same. Indeed some others who haven't done this are desperately trying to upgrade asap. Bigger boats get better spaces in marinas, don't flicker so much in the wind. You'll need help whatever the size of boat - buy it first then get a bloke along for under 100 quid a day, for 5 days at least. Day skipper only partially useful imho. Pin sharp navigation needs uncommon sense, electronics, backup electronics, and good preparation before blamming along at 20knots plus where drawing lines on soggy paper for course change ain't an option. Need charts too, but for reference during the preparation of a fast boat trip

 

[caz]

thanks for your comments. I guess one of the things I'm trying to reconcile is whether as a novice I should be spending this amount of money on what will be my first boat. Maybe I just worry too much ;-)

I'm looking to keep it somewhere on the south coast. The 2 at the top of my list currently are Brighton - about a hours drive for me (traffic permitting) and loads to do if the weather turns bad. I've also had a look at Eastbourne - journey not so good but they will allow me to store my jetski there too on a hydroPort

 

[BarryD]

Hi welcome to the board. You get loads of advice just be prepared to ignore it all.

For my money I'd buy something that I could shift easily at the end of the season if it wan't for me, say a diesel 30' around the £25 - 35K mark. You will need to keep back about £5 -£7k for electronics, repairs, berthing, dinghy, boating hat etc... If you and partner like the boating life, then you can look at what bits you really want and what you can do with out - then it is time to get something else.

It's no secret I've recently bought an old small monster engined petrol boat totally against the good idea of the forum. But next September (you'll have to pay DaveS) I'll change it for something else. I fancy a Broom CL35 but apparantly I'm not old enough.

Training: Day Skipper practical good value at five days. But maybe start with a Powerboat 2 course for two days (make sure it's a coastal one so you get sea nav aids and tide stuff) and then learn the additional handling / navigation by hiring a chap who knows as TCM has suggested. Or just learn it by bumping into other boats in the marina...

What ever, enjoy it.

Barry D

 

[Guest]

Re your questions:

Like veryone else, I would recommend you take formal tuition, especially on pilotage/navigation etc. Its just as important, if not more so, to know the rules of the road on a boat as a car. Handling the boat in terms of maneuvering, etc., is IMHO, less of an issue as you will get a feel for that quite quickly but, again, get some training.

With regard to what sort of boat, bear in mind that boats are like cars, if you buy new, you will take a big hit on depreciation in the first year. If you buy carefully, it is possible to buy second hand something which will hold its value and , if you are very lucky, even appreciate a little.
E.G. I bought a two year old Fairline Mirage in the eighties for £22k and sold her 3 years later for £28k. These boats even now still command prices in the £18-22k range. Compare that with your average car!

As well as allowing a bit in your price for kit you might want to add post acquisition, also bear in mind the running costs. A 25 ft boat is going to cost around £5-6k per annum to berth, fuel, insure and maintain, provided you have no major mechanical repairs. For boat spares, think of the car equivalent and multiply by at least four.

However, its a great hobby if you can afford it and I am sure you will be hooked just the rest of us.

Nick

 

[byron]

My advice, is don't do it. Take up knitting, window box design, used Tampax collecting, anything but boating. I would be a rich man if it weren't for boating as would every person here.

ô¿ô

 

[tcm]

Re: More advice for a potential newbie

oh, and I'd rent a boat for a bit too. Note that your current craft will be quicker than a s23, but the s23 offers praps weekend overnigh snooze on board. But then, from eastbourne, you need something more able to do longer trips cros channel. And of course, perhaps try the med? You could get good experience and take summer holidays charting there, yet still blam around in the channel at other times? You can live on some boats, not others - is that what you want to do. Renting will help make up your mind.

 

[ArthurWood]

Byron- But just think how happy you are being poor - contrary to what Warwick Univ says.

 

[Guest]

Re: Advice for Caz

Hi Caz I am fairly new to boating about 14 months in which time I have cruised 1600 nm and 160 hrs
only after taking ICC Day skipper in solent, 4 day course with Top Deck Sea School. You can take
course on own boat about 4 days.

Buying new apart from natural depreciation means almost certainly loss of vat amount. Go for 3-4 yrs old
low hours etc. Good luck Once bitten you will enjoy it I am sure.

cneighbour

 

[ToMo]

Byron I'm considering claiming a new jumper from you (yup a really expensive one, naturally!), when I read that you would be rich if it weren't for owing a boat I almost choked on my coffee and spat it over my new-ish (well younger than me!) jumper, thus ruining it.
Now when are you sending me a replacement? or do I have to ask Mistress Pauline to dress up in kinky leathers and whip you?
TôMö

 

[KevB]

From my limited experience as this is only my second season boating IMHO 30' LOA and diesel are the minimum otherwise you'll be looking for something bigger within a couple of months, I've been there seen it and done it.

Also remember the bigger the boat generally the more comfortable the ride.
And make sure the marina you wish to use has got the space for the boat.

Go for it, the people and the pleasure are worth the money.

 

[hlb]

IMHO. You need to be going for 28ft plus or theres no great advantage over the speed boat. I went for a 33 after the small boat stage. That will cope with most weather that your likly to be out in and quite cumfy for two or three for a fortnight or more. Now I didn't bother with training or quizes and things, but then again I dont think they'd invented them then. Very important to have charts and tide tables though, and take small steps at first. (Dont try to do a Gludy, North West Passage, Atlantic Crossing) thingy just yet!
GPS and a chart plotter will make life much easier and an auto pilot will give you time to study the charts without the boat turning round in the odd second that your hands arnt glued to the wheel. So reacon on another 2 or 3 grand for that if not fitted. Then of course theres radar, which IMHO is totaly important because the fog or rain will catch you out eventually. So add another grand or so. Hopfully most of these will already be fitted. Uddles of ropes and fenders, tools and spares needed too, for all the unexpected places that you can now go to.

Haydn

 

[coliholic]

Pauline and kinky leather

You don't HAVE to ask Pauline to do that for Byron, she'll do it anyway. Course the reason she likes the leather is that anything that dribbles down it doesn't produce a stain. More spinach Pauline;-)

 

[DepSol]

Buy second hand that way you dont take the depriciation hit and someone has kitted it out for you. I bought a Jeanneau Leader 805 brand new ( but got a great deal )with a dieselKAD43, great boat for skiing wakeboard ( as it produces nice big wake ) has two seperate cabins with good size berths microwave 2 gas burner fridge freezer cool box, plenty of sun bathing room hot cold water, toilet, shower and loads of storage. The Jeaneau's advantage in the 26ft category is that it is 9'9" wide whereas most other boats are 8'6" so you get quite a bit for your money. Done 36 knts in it cruise around 30 and stay weekends in France on it with freinds of ours living abourd aswell.

Single diesel cheap servicing and you can ski all day on diesel prices good comprimise between 23' sealine and 33' whatever. At the end of the day you have to decide what you want the boat for and get what you feel is the best 4 your money.

Let us know what you do.

Dom

PS do you think the forum should be split?

 

[claymore]

Hello Caz
Interesting post and prompted quite a good response. I am a sailingboattypeofperson and therefore shouldn't really be commenting on here at all. So the first piece of advice is dont take any notice of a word I say. You go ahead and buy yourself whatever you want and I hope it makes you as happy and as skint as the rest of us. As far as tuition goes - I wouldn't bother really - no-one else round here did and they seem to get on just fine and their exploits make stimulating reading and you wouldn't want to be the odd one out by knowing what to do now would you??
Hope this helps
regards
JS

 

[tcm]

Re: ooh

Caz, that claymore is a sailingboat person, and unfortunataly saying quite nasty things. Mind you, lots of them are much nastier, and claymore is often quite nice. But, some sailyboaters get much more training, I'm afraid- especially on being awful and unpleasant to motoboats, known to them as "stinkpots" or "stinkboats". Even though they have an engine too: imagine if people who smoke twenty cigarrettes a day saying "bloody hell wht a stink of ciggies" to people who smoke forty a day. Anyway, never mind.

 

[oldgit]

Re:O and bye the way.

Welcome to the asylum Caz.Buried deep in this BB is years n years of experience. You could walk past any one of the posters on this site and could assume that he was a normal sensible rational intelligent bloke with a firm grasp of fiscal matters. but just add bit bit of salt/fresh water and stand well clear.
He will lose all sense of proportion and common sense etc .work+wife n kids fade into the background.He will be heard mumbling to himself or to anyone unable to get out of range about plotters n volvo repair bills while stumbling along looking up at rain filled sky with inane hopefull grin on face.This could be your fate.
PPPsBottle of Meths in boat owners trouser pocket is not for cleaning brushes with.

 

[Scubadoo]

Well you certainly had allot of advice.

I was in the same situation as you about 3-4years ago, I had a Fletcher Arrowstreak (16ft) and after ten years decided I want to go further and keep it in a marina. After allot of research into American vs British boats I ended up buying a new Sealine S24 - Diesel (now the new S23).

It is all very well the other guys recommending 30-40ft boats to start with but you got to do you sums and decide on the cost. Buying a 30ft+ boat is a big hike in price and in annual maintenance, if you got a bottomless pit of money then maybe not a problem. I suggest you start cautious and a 23-26ft boat is a good upgrade from a Arrowflash (14ft).

These guys moan about it not being much more comfortable than a speedboat is complete rubbish. My S24 has given me allot of freedom and in comfort over my previous speedboat.

Unfortunatetly buying new at around the 24ft is very limited with the popular Brit boats suchas Fairline, Sunseeker, Princess etc etc, they all start from at least 30ft. However Sealine are about the only ones who still make smaller boats. However American, European boats do cover the smaller boats but don't seem so popular in resale.

As I said before I purchased a new Sealine S24 2.5 years ago and have been offered £5K more than I paid for it, so the depreciation theory is not always true. Sealine have now replaced the S24 with a S23 (1" shorter) and is really a good improvement to the S24 with a deeper V hull. Sealine have reduced the price too - S24 Diesel was around £50k - the new S23 is now £45-47K. You could buy a used S24 diesel from £35k to £42K and to be honest if you going to pay over 40K consider a new one.

I do agree you should do a RYA course, the Powerboat level 1&2 is a good start, I did mine much later after I purchased my first boat - so don't panic trying to achieve everything.

Again I urge you to tread carefully on buying a large boat if you have limited funds, remember Marinas in the Southcoast now charge from £2k for a 24ft boat and over £3-4k for a 36ft, then insurance, diesel running costs, servicing etc etc.

I hope that helps, I have been through your current experience and maybe able to help more if you need it.

PS. Had my 24ft for 2.5 years and not yet running to upgrade, but of course I will upgrade at some point.

Regards,
RM.

 

[caz]

Re: A word of thanks

Guys,

Just a note to say thanks to you all for taking time out to give me some advice. The off subject posts made for some interesting reading too (maybe an argument for not splitting the forum, but as a newbie I wouldn't want to be classed a trouble maker on my first day of posting ;-) so I'll drop that subject right away.)

Anyway I've certainly got some more food for thought. I'll keep you posted!

Thanks again