Advice: boat for singlehanded UK circumnavigation

[Tranona]

There are no special requirements for such a trip that can't be met by a well found coastal cruiser. So choose a boat you like and are happy with. The success of the voyage depends far more on how you plan and execute it than the boat you choose. In that price range you will be looking at boats at least 20 years old so much more important to get one in the best condition with the best kit for your style of sailing. There is a big difference between the press on regardless to get it done approach and the take it easy and enjoy cruise with no real time constraints. Equally if you are going to spend most of your time sailing then all weather performance is more important than harbour comforts and ability to explore shallow estuaries.

Each individual will have his own set of priorities and this influences final choice of boat. I know what mine would be, and although my ideal is not the boat I currently own, I would probably not change but adjust my expectations to match the boat on the basis that I know the boat inside out and what it can do in my hands. So, even if you are buying a boat concentrate on something you are comfortable living with rather than somebody else's ideal.

 

[gasdave]

Sadlers are mentioned but not the 26. Why?

I'm sure it could do everything necessary for a trip such as this and would easily meet the OP's stated requirements of size, budget, seaworthiness, bilge keels, a decent level of comfort and well built. Definitely on a par with an "equivalent" Westerly. And currently a selection on the market.

 

[Seajet]

Sadlers are mentioned but not the 26. Why?

I'm sure it could do everything necessary for a trip such as this and would easily meet the OP's stated requirements of size, budget, seaworthiness, bilge keels, a decent level of comfort and well built. Definitely on a par with an "equivalent" Westerly. And currently a selection on the market.

gasdave,

yes the Sadler 26 is a fine boat, very seaworthy - with ' unsinkable ' buoyancy - and has a decent turn of speed.

I for one would have mentioned the boat sooner, but had the impression you were looking for a larger craft.

There's a fast, seaworthy 22' design I could mention too !

 

[bobgoode]

Firstly, there is no difference between sailing around the UK and sailing, say, the South Coast. By that I mean the challenges are pretty much the same in each case. The only real issue is if you sail one area continually you become experienced...IN THAT AREA. The skills are transferable so if you are competent to sail then go for it. As far as the original question, what boat?, the one that you already have is probably best. You will know it's foibles and what need fixing before you start off. People have done it in all sorts from Sadler 25's upwards. If you are planning on three on-board then space will be a major consideration so go 32 or bigger unless you want to get really close to your crew.
As has already been stated, if you know boats and the sea, do it. If not, get some experience first.

 

[JimC]

Drying out is only an issue if you are determined to crawl up East coast creeks...

I think it is also an issue if you want to go up the West Coast. Many of the nicest harbours and anchorages between Milford Haven and the Clyde dry, eg. Red Wharf Bay

View attachment 27361

If the OP just wants to race round in long legs from one marina or deep water harbour to the next then fair enough, drying need not be an issue. But if he wants to really explore the coast then, for large parts of the journey, a boat that can't take the ground may prove to be something of a liability.

 

[Seajet]

Why do you think this because that is not how I understand the Rival 34's windward performance, I classify it as good. They don't like pinching and lose way easily if one is inclined to pinch but by sailing shy of close hauled they perform powerfully upwind.

BlowingOldBoots,

years ago my club had a rally from Chichester to Bucklers Hard; on the Sunday return trip it blew up to a good F6-7 on the nose.

One of the club boats was a very nice new Rival 34, the owner was an ex National Champion on the Enterprise dinghy so knew what he was doing.

Our Anderson 22 - despite having 4 heavy adults in the cockpit, and she hates weight aft - pulled ahead of the Rival and beat her home by a matter of hours, not minutes.

The Rival owner always met me after that with the greeting " I hate that boat ! "

I'm sure the Rival is a fine boat for blue water sailing, but performance to windward is not her strong suit; from what I have read, the 38 is much worse in this respect.

 

[charles_reed]

One of the little Parkers - the 235 should be well inside your price bracket and the bigger ones will sail rings around comparable sized boats and all will dry out flat and level.

The Parker 31 (which became the 325) was originally designed for the first Round Britain single-handed race. I've had mine from new and have done about 65K nm mostly single handed - however even an early example will be well above your price bracket.

Rivals are just great, very cramped and not particularly fast, but excellent sea boats and look like a sailboat should look.

In view of their QAS issues I'd tend to fight shy of the Westerlys, but Sadlers are good except for their notorious unbonding decks.

In the final analysis it's not the boat but the sailor who makes or breaks such a venture - I would however steer clear of most bilge-keelers.

 

[Paddingtonbear]

Another vote for a Sea Dog, more motor sailerish I know but why are they not well thought of. I ask this as a potential purchaser.

 

[Seajet]

Paddingtonbear,

the Seadog has a reputation for being built like a brick outhouse and looking after their crews; as long as the engine isn't too old ( ie it needs to have been replaced by now ), and you're not a speed freak, she seems a good boat.

Probably more suited to long trips than harbour to harbour weekending, but a fine boat.

The souped up 'Deep Seadog' with more sail and keel was a better sailing boat, if you can find one.

 

[Seajet]

One of the little Parkers - the 235 should be well inside your price bracket and the bigger ones will sail rings around comparable sized boats and all will dry out flat and level.

The Parker 31 (which became the 325) was originally designed for the first Round Britain single-handed race. I've had mine from new and have done about 65K nm mostly single handed - however even an early example will be well above your price bracket.

Rivals are just great, very cramped and not particularly fast, but excellent sea boats and look like a sailboat should look.

In view of their QAS issues I'd tend to fight shy of the Westerlys, but Sadlers are good except for their notorious unbonding decks.

In the final analysis it's not the boat but the sailor who makes or breaks such a venture - I would however steer clear of most bilge-keelers.

Charles Reed,

I beg to differ, I'd say there's nothing wrong with Westerlies or twin keelers, as nearly 3,000 buyers for the Centaur alone can testify !

I don't have a Westerly BTW.

It's true that some twin keelers require internal reinforcing to go on half tide moorings, not at all surprising when one considers the horrible loads on splayed keels going in and out of mud twice a day; bouncing any boat on a drying hard sand mooring seems very cruel to me.

The problems affecting Centaurs only got publicity because there are so many around; smaller classes will have the same or worse snags, but when only a dozen were made who does one discuss it with, especially before the internet.

The Parkers are not vice free; the snag with a fully retractable keel leaving a flush bottom is that the hull rests on anything nasty and pointy on the seabed, stones and one's own mooring sinker etc right through the range to shopping trolleys !

My Anderson 22 has a sizeable ballast bulb ( ballast ratio 44% unlike some lift keelers I could mention ) which acts as a useful armour plated contact with the seabed, keeping most of the hull off or in only light contact; she settles completely upright in mud.

The OP could do a lot worse than an Anderson for his trip !

 

[Neil]

The second link is to Cox Engineering and it shows legs on a Sadler yacht. Within the web pages he describes how they were fitted onto a fin keeler. Very easy to do and relatively low cost as well.

The third link is for a yacht leg manufacturing company.

http://www.rivalowners.org.uk/noticeboard/forsale/forsale.htm
http://coxengineering.sharepoint.com/Pages/default.aspx
http://www.yachtlegs.co.uk/yachtlegs.php
BlowingOldBoots

As I followed this thread, it reminded me of other threads which weighed the pros and cons of bilge/fin and the compromise of performance over the ability to dry out. Need to dry out? - fit some legs! Not that legs are new - so why are they not used more often? Reference has been made to bilge keels splaying out under the load (especially during that time of bumping the bottom before being fully grounded) A lifting keel gives a shallow sailing draft if required, but the grounding plate on a Southerly seems a sledge hammer to crack an egg in terms of drying out ability, in view of the availability of legs? What am I missing?

 

[charles_reed]

I've only sailed the Deep Seadog, quite seakindly and not bad sailing but, like most motor-sailers, desperately undercanvassed.
With the overlapping genoa one could tack through 100° but needed a F3 to get moving to windward and an F5 for downwind performance. Didn't slip into the groove so quite hard work for the helm.
Don't think the mizzenmast was for anything but leaning against and sneering at sloops, seriously, useful for reaching but not much good after that.

I'd rule it out totally for singlehanding - it really needs three to work it properly.

Well built, a step-change up from Westerlys of the same vintage, and capable of planned voyages at 5.0 knots providing you used the engine as soon as speed dropped below that.

For fun sailing doesn't compare with later AWBs - but few are as small as the Seadog.

 

[charles_reed]

Charles Reed,

I beg to differ, I'd say there's nothing wrong with Westerlies or twin keelers, as nearly 3,000 buyers for the Centaur alone can testify !

I don't have a Westerly BTW.

It's true that some twin keelers require internal reinforcing to go on half tide moorings, not at all surprising when one considers the horrible loads on splayed keels going in and out of mud twice a day; bouncing any boat on a drying hard sand mooring seems very cruel to me.

The problems affecting Centaurs only got publicity because there are so many around; smaller classes will have the same or worse snags, but when only a dozen were made who does one discuss it with, especially before the internet.

The Parkers are not vice free; the snag with a fully retractable keel leaving a flush bottom is that the hull rests on anything nasty and pointy on the seabed, stones and one's own mooring sinker etc right through the range to shopping trolleys !

My Anderson 22 has a sizeable ballast bulb ( ballast ratio 44% unlike some lift keelers I could mention ) which acts as a useful armour plated contact with the seabed, keeping most of the hull off or in only light contact; she settles completely upright in mud.

The OP could do a lot worse than an Anderson for his trip !

Let's agree to disagree - though the Centaur brought cruising within the reach of many it sailed like a dog - but fortunately had an oversized engine to make up for that. The QAS problems really only started after that period of build.
As to the assertion that the Parkers pick up thing in the keel housing - it has no evidence to back it and is an opinion.
I wouldn't disagree about the Anderson for his trip - but accomodationwise any 22' is going to be uncomfortable.

Choice of boat has most to do with how long he's got in which to do the trip and how good a seaman he might be.

 

[JimC]

I would however steer clear of most bilge-keelers.

A bilge-keeler will dry out safely on many a boulder-strewn beach which would be unsafe for a lift-keeler like a Parker. So far as I know the Southerlys and some of the French Kelts are the only lifting keelers which would be safe in this situation.

Not that legs are new - so why are they not used more often?

Same reason as above: you have to know you are going to settle down on a firm level surface. The shores of the British Isles do not universally consist of firm level surfaces.

 

[charles_reed]

A bilge-keeler will dry out safely on many a boulder-strewn beach which would be unsafe for a lift-keeler like a Parker. So far as I know the Southerlys and some of the French Kelts are the only lifting keelers which would be safe in this situation.


Same reason as above: you have to know you are going to settle down on a firm level surface. The shores of the British Isles do not universally consist of firm level surfaces.

Don't follow your logic - that a bilge keeler will dry out more safely than my Parker 31 - in fact I know the opposite having dried out up the Guadiana.

 

[JimC]

Don't follow your logic - that a bilge keeler will dry out more safely than my Parker 31 - in fact I know the opposite having dried out up the Guadiana.

If the seabed onto which the boat settles has boulders or rocks then a boat whose GRP bottom gets pounded onto these may be holed. I have witnessed this in my own sailing area of the Lancashire coast and Morecambe Bay where there are many rock outcrops or "skears", sometimes covered by sand & mud sometimes not. With a bilge keeler having cast iron keels the pounding will be taken on the keels.

 

[Seajet]

Charles,

the Centaur sails quite well, as we discovered when my Father - who was trained on dinghies by yours truly - had a late model.

The Centaur has a few myths surrounding it, and one is being a poor sailing boat and motor sailer; in fact the only reason the large ( for its' day ) engine was fitted was because Volvo Penta offered Westerlys a good deal !

The boat sails well when properly trimmed and is capable of good passage times; it only got the reputation for sailing poorly as a result of clueless commentators noting the big engine, and the fact that a lot of owners were novices who would have been less than spectacular in any boat.

The only real critiscsm Dad and I have of the design is that the helm is completely neutral and lifeless, we tried various aircraft flight test tricks like trim tabs and vortex generators on the rudder, but in the end Dad gave up, " I've been spoiled by the Anderson ! "

 

[Seajet]

A bilge-keeler will dry out safely on many a boulder-strewn beach which would be unsafe for a lift-keeler like a Parker. So far as I know the Southerlys and some of the French Kelts are the only lifting keelers which would be safe in this situation.


Same reason as above: you have to know you are going to settle down on a firm level surface. The shores of the British Isles do not universally consist of firm level surfaces.

Ahem, see my signature below !

 

[Scotty_Tradewind]

Sea Dog .... deep keel version far more sea-kindly..... Sails like a 'dog' though as previously said... probably undercanvassed as also mentioned, however probably a very good/comfortable boat for circumnavigating as you'll find yourself motoring 80%+ going round U.K. ... we did
Also a cozy cockpit etc and good internal volume for length. A twin keeler may also be a consideration for the east coast??
We found that comfort meant greater pleasure for our trip.
S.

 

[northwind]

Trouble is those of us with a Parker Seal know how good they are. we'll be the ones in port while you are all still slogging away.

Anyhow this thread seems to have as usual turned into my centaur is better than yours, but my Anderson is better still.

Ho hum.