ADMIRALTY SAILING CRAFT - ASC

[sccsailor]

I am working on a project in association with the Sea Cadets and I need to find a copy of the build details and drawings of the ASC. This craft was 16ft long with a beam of around 5ft. The craft could be used for both pulling and sailing. It is an excellent craft for learning and introducing young sailers to the world of sail. If any one could help me on this matter, I will be very grateful.

Regards, Sailor

 

[Peterduck]

Are you referring to the Montagu[e] Whaler? That was around those dimensions, although I always thought that it was 19ft overall. There are a few examples of this very prolifically- built whaleboat still around. Surely the NMM would have the drawings for it?
Peter.

 

[KenMcCulloch]

As a young Sea Scout in the 1960s I sailed in an RNSA (Royal Navy Sailing Association) dinghy. About 16' loa and 5' beam, yes. Clinker construction and an enormous steel centreplate, gunter rig. Might that be what you're after?

 

[sccsailor]

The ASC can also be referred to as the Admiralty Sea Cadet sailing craft. I am still searching for information on this type of vessel, and to date the only findings I have had is from an old website

www.tsactive.org.uk/res/pulling.doc


Regards, Chris

 

[cliffordpope]

We had an RNSA in the school corps in the 60s. I remember the centre-plate - it was wound up with a bronze wheel and length of cord, and a chain on a smaller sprocket. It went with with a roar like a battleship dropping anchor when you let it go.

I'd forgotten the gunter rig, but obviously that must be right, because it had a staysail, and I'm sure only one main halyard.

Happy days! It was absolutely uncapsizeable. We used to press on under full sail while our fellows in the Enterprise were just trying to keep upright, throwing wet sponges at them in broadsides as we stormed past.

 

[oldharry]

Have you tried the Naval Museum at Portsmouth? Very helpful and a wealth of information about - err the Navy.

 

[Seagreen]

Ahh, those were the days.

Galvanised hand scoops, the big bronze centreplate winch drum banging on your knees, your freezing toes stubbing against the tin bouyancy tanks...
...Bliss!

 

[sharkey3439]

Do a Google search for Bossoms Boatyard, they have been the builder's of these boats for years, and may help you out.

 

[sccsailor]

Many thanks for all your useful information. I will continue my search and research using the ideas you have given me. I have had no joy with the NMM, or indeed the Chatham Museum. So a dead end there unfortunately. If anyone has any other information please let me know.

Kind Regards, Chris.

 

[celandine]

Here on the Medway, ie Chatham, there used to be a small fleet of heavy clinker dinghies that might well be relevant to what you are seeking. I believe they were originally built by shipwright apprentices in the RN Dockyard and I presume originally used by the Navy for basic sail training. They were 14 ft long, gunter rigged with heavy iron plate operated by a line wound on a bronze spool. I am fairly sure they were known as "Island Class" dinghies.

By the time I knew them, in the 50's, most were in local private hands including my dad's; it was the first boat I ever sailed on. I have fond memories of the old (somewhat leaky) thing hence my present boat is named after it. If it would be useful I will see if I can track down some photographs. I would love to know if there are any still sailing. I have a rudder from one that has been hanging on the wall in my workshop for decades.

.

 

[Keith 66]

The Sea cadets still use ASC's i beleive it stands for auxilary sailing cutter. They are GRP very fat and heavy and i thought they are more than 16 ft long there is a Masochists class for them in the Great river race so try them for details.
As a training boat for youngsters i can think of no design more soul destroying for a youngster to row due to its weight and lack of performance.

 

[martinatty]

I keep a RNSA 14 on the Stour (Suffolk side of the estuary) - lovely varnish, a bit leaky, with as new 1960s admiralty made cotton sails - sails well in a bit of a blow. It was made for (or possibly by) the Royal Hospital School in the early 1960s. It still has all the bronze fittings & I have copies of the plans and admiralty spec.
I have heard they were based on the 1930s island class dinghy.

 

[amatchett]

As a sailing cadet in the 1960s our group had 3 clinker built boats, a 27' Montague whaler (nice pointed stern), a 32' Cutter, and a smaller RNSA 14. One of my jobs was to rub down and partially restore the RNSA 14, a job which I vowed never to do again. Here now 45 years on I found myself again in possetion of an RNSA 14. Yes they were indeed adopted from the Island class as the naval officers recreation boat, often built as dockyard apprentice pieces of Honduras mahogany on oak and very heavy but subsequently replaced by the Bosun. Uffa Fox's drawings show a massive Bermuda rig though the original had a gunter rig with the spars all under 14' to fit in the boat, and the hull is fitted with davit hoisting points. There is a 1/4 scale model illustrated on the National Maritime Museum site. Also all the ASC craft in service are described in the Admiralty Manual of Seamanship Vol 1 dated 1972. The RNSA 14 raced under a primary Portsmouth Yardstick of 115 in 1963. They do indeed go well in a blow and our restored RNSA actually won an OGA race outright on Ulleswater in September 2007. However we subsequently found our rudder stock broken so if Celendine wishes to sell his to put back into service to keep our old girl competative I will be interested.

 

[crabbtrux]

Potted history.

The ASC is a specific boat, designed to an admiralty specification, for Sea Cadet units. The first design was clinker built, in the 1920s, with GRP not being allowed until 1975. Whilst, as someone has said, being heavy, they're fairly bullet proof and safe.
You'll have a game getting plans as such, as I believe there are only a very few boatyards approved to build them by the Admiralty, so they'll keep the original plans under lock and key I'd guess? Having said that, pretty much /every/ sea cadet unit will have one, so maybe search out your next nearest branch, and pop down there with a tape measure?
Bossoms is one boat builder, and they list the RRP as around £13k, for the GRP hull, and the wooden bits inside. Add £3k for a mast and sail!!

 

[Keith 66]

There is an old one laying locally that has been converted with a fairly large gaff rig & bowsprit, she looks quite good. I stand by my previous assertion that as a rowing boat the ASC is tantamount to child abuse, slow, fat, heavy & utterly unsuitable for teaching kids to row unless you want to put them off rowing for life!

 

[Seanick]

I have a 19' Admiralty Gig, built in '76, if you want constructional details you can view it and take the lines off too if you wish.
PO10.

 

[RedAdmiral]

If you go to Leicester Sea Cadets web site www.tstiger.org.uk you will find some useful information. When you get to the site click Resources and then Pulling and ASC.

 

[Romeo]

I stand by my previous assertion that as a rowing boat the ASC is tantamount to child abuse, slow, fat, heavy & utterly unsuitable for teaching kids to row unless you want to put them off rowing for life!

If you want a boat for rowing, rather than sailing, with a group, may I recommend the St Ayles Skiff. You can buy a kit at www.jordanboats.co.uk and can expect to have a completed boat for about £3k (plus about 400 man hours).

R

 

[JohnLS]

Re. ASC

We have three ASC's at TS Jersey. Two are on the water at the moment and one is undergoing repairs as part of our rolling maintenance scheme. You may be interested to see the attached picture which was taken on 31st July. This is the first time one of our ASC's has been sailed for probably 10 years but certainly won't be the last. I have some diagrams somewhere which I will scan for you but no detailed plans I'm afraid.

 

[JohnLS]

ASC sailing.

View attachment 6340

Here (hopefully) is the picture of our ASC under sail. Apologies for the previous post, I hadn't figured out how attachments were added!