Admiralty charts - have I got this right?

[PhillM]

Saw a message on FB about the new small craft service. Apparently, folios are out so you have to buy each chart individually. There are 47 in the 'old' Solent and approaches. The price quoted on the website is £15 each. However, they do offer substantial discounts of up to 75%. Even so, to replace the whole folio would cost just over £100 instead of the £45 that the old one used to cost. ADMIRALTY Small Craft Charts | Charts | ADMIRALTY
Now you might argue that we never used all the charts in the folio, but still, it does look like the price just doubled.

 

[dunedin]

Saw a message on FB about the new small craft service. Apparently, folios are out so you have to buy each chart individually. There are 47 in the 'old' Solent and approaches. The price quoted on the website is £15 each. However, they do offer substantial discounts of up to 75%. Even so, to replace the whole folio would cost just over £100 instead of the £45 that the old one used to cost. ADMIRALTY Small Craft Charts | Charts | ADMIRALTY
Now you might argue that we never used all the charts in the folio, but still, it does look like the price just doubled.

Yes, more than doubled.

 

[KompetentKrew]

Looks like someone on FB reposted from was reading this recent thread: Charts in the cockpit

 

[Sandy]

Other suppliers are available. I now use NV on the south coast.

 

[Neeves]

Just out of interest

If you have a set of old charts, that you kept up to date - why do you need new charts? Has the Solent changed that much.

 

[Vicarage]

Thanks for the heads up! I've just spoken to our chart agent about this. It looks like there is a significant discount on volume purchases (75% for 15+ charts). This brings it down to £3.50 a chart and so 15 sheets is back to the £45 average folio price

Losing the plastic wallet will be a pain for organisation, but I have been frustrated before by having one or two key sheets in the folio wear out from repeated use, forcing the replacement of an entire folio when many of the other sheets are unused, so can see the appeal of having print on demand extended to small craft sheets. We use PoD for full size charts and having them turn up corrected to the latest week is really helpful. I imagine a majority of leisure sailors (myself included) will buy a folio and treat it as if it's up to date for purchase when obviously it could be several years old, so the potential safety element is a positive step.

 

[humbug716]

Do they supply the additional information printed on the reverse side? I'm not sure they do.

 

[doug748]

Thanks for the heads up! I've just spoken to our chart agent about this. It looks like there is a significant discount on volume purchases (75% for 15+ charts). This brings it down to £3.50 a chart and so 15 sheets is back to the £45 average folio price

Losing the plastic wallet will be a pain for organisation, but I have been frustrated before by having one or two key sheets in the folio wear out from repeated use, forcing the replacement of an entire folio when many of the other sheets are unused, so can see the appeal of having print on demand extended to small craft sheets. We use PoD for full size charts and having them turn up corrected to the latest week is really helpful. I imagine a majority of leisure sailors (myself included) will buy a folio and treat it as if it's up to date for purchase when obviously it could be several years old, so the potential safety element is a positive step.

That sounds like better news then. It's slightly vague on the website, eg:

"ADMIRALTY Small Craft Charts service will have a recommended retail price (RRP) of £15.00 per sheet. "

"Each ADMIRALTY Small Craft Chart has a recommended retail price of £15."

I have E mailed them for confirmation that each printing is indeed for a double sided chart but no response so far. Assuming this to be the case, the replacement cost of my folio of 9 charts would be:

9 * 15 = £135 less 35% = £87.35 or c 50% more expensive. Just an extra printing would put you in the next discount band at 65% 10 * £15 + £150 less 65% = £52.50 or just a modest increase in price.

So, with such large steps in the discounts, it pays to look carefully at your needs. As mentioned in the other thread, if you just want a few charts it is a poor deal, better to look elsewhere and get a full pack, with case, cover sheet and sometimes other extras, for the same or less money.


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[lustyd]

Until they actually drop the folios you can vote with your wallet, they literally just released a bunch of new ones so you have a while. Buy folios instead and it's unlikely they will ever commit to the new printing service fully, or at the very least will make it a better priced offering. Of course, given that at this point paper charts themselves are quite niche you may find yourself in the minority of a minority. I imagine a lot of chart sales are now for decorative purposes so single sheet without creases is probably going to be pretty popular.

 

[Sandy]

So, with such large steps in the discounts, it pays to look carefully at your needs. As mentioned in the other thread, if you just want a few charts it is a poor deal, better to look elsewhere and get a full pack, with case, cover sheet and sometimes other extras, for the same or less money.

Or another way if you just want a specific chart and not all of them in a Folio, e.g. for a passage, then you are quids in.

 

[[3889]]

Or, assuming you do not rely on tallow on lead to plumb depths, you could drag your sorry ass into the 21st late 20th century and use electronic charts as do 90% of other navigators, including the RN.

 

[dunedin]

Or, assuming you do not rely on tallow on lead to plumb depths, you could drag your sorry ass into the 21st late 20th century and use electronic charts as do 90% of other navigators, including the RN.

As in the ones you have to confirm are “not to be used for navigation”, as all electronic leisure charts insist. Not quite sure what they think we are buying them for, if not to navigate a boat

 

[Yealm]

Or, assuming you do not rely on tallow on lead to plumb depths, you could drag your sorry ass into the 21st late 20th century and use electronic charts as do 90% of other navigators, including the RN.

90% seems low...
Paper charts are useless (but lovely and historic and fun to pour over at home over Winter) - they don't tell you where you are !!

 

[Black Sheep]

Come on, chaps. Don't turn this useful thread into yet another acrimonious "your method of navigation is wrong" argument.

Some of us want to use paper charts - either instead of, or to supplement, other methods.

The Admiralty changes will affect those of us who would like to use Admiralty folios, and it's useful to gather some facts.

 

[awol]

Paper charts are useless (but lovely and historic and fun to pour over at home over Winter) - they don't tell you where you are !!

You may feel differently when/if the Ukraine situation escalates with GPS denial/spoofing.

 

[doug748]

Further to post 8.

No reply from the Hydrographic office but I have spoken to a retailer and they say that in fact the £15 printing is - per printed side.

So the economics for the notional 9 double sheets in my Channel Islands pack would now look like this:

18 printed sheets @ £15 per sheet = £270 Less 75% bulk discount = £67.50 Or a roughly 33% increase on the previous price.


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[dunedin]

Further to post 8.

No reply from the Hydrographic office but I have spoken to a retailer and they say that in fact the £15 printing is - per printed side.

So the economics for the notional 9 double sheets in my Channel Islands pack would now look like this:

18 printed sheets @ £15 per sheet = £270 Less 75% bulk discount = £67.50 Or a roughly 33% increase on the previous price.
.

So you will get the 75% discount on all sheets? Not a sliding scale with the first 3 sheets at full price, the next 3 at the next step discount etc?
That would be better if it is confirmed, but wasn’t clear in any of the examples to date

 

[lustyd]

You may feel differently when/if the Ukraine situation escalates with GPS denial/spoofing.

All of my devices support GLONASS comrade so all good.

 

[NormanS]

90% seems low...
Paper charts are useless (but lovely and historic and fun to pour over at home over Winter) - they don't tell you where you are !!

What do you suggest we should pour over our charts?

 

[newtothis]

90% seems low...
Paper charts are useless (but lovely and historic and fun to pour over at home over Winter) - they don't tell you where you are !!

Still kinda useful for drawing all those little triangles they teach you in day skipper.