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Fair enough. I have no axe to grind, nor do I have any experience of motorsailers, so I'll get my coat....
About small motor sailers
- Thread starter wombat88
- Start date
Fair enough. I have no axe to grind, nor do I have any experience of motorsailers, so I'll get my coat....
rotrax
Well-Known Member
Dont beat yourself up-you posted in good faith to assist the OP.
Motorsailers with draught free pilothouse's are not perfect.
Sailing well with the wind on the beam at 12-14 KTS true we rounded Start Point and found the wind turned just off the starboard bow and at 20-24 KTS!
The boat took control and we were overcanvassed and in trouble.
I was I/C at the time, First Mate off watch. Inside the warm, draught free pilothouse I had not noticed the wind creeping up.
Got a real bollocking from FM.................................
LadyInBed
Well-Known Member
Any boat is what you make of it. I had 15 years of fun and adventure in my Swin Ranger. Many, many trips to the C I's and N Brittany, two extended circuits of the French canals. The only reason that I changed was because I could afford to go bigger to get more comfort and go further.
If I was starting again, the Steadfast 24 would be high on the list of starter boats that suit my cruising style.
{151760}
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You don't need a pilothouse to make that mistake!
wombat88
Well-Known Member
Thanks all, contenders in no particular order are now: Swin Ranger 22, Master Mariner 22, Steadfast 24.
We shall see what we shall see, this list could change...
We shall see what we shall see, this list could change...
steve yates
Well-Known Member
Just to throw in a very unusual but interesting sounding boat I was watching online, the arrensen 28, has both a tiller in the cockpit and a wheel in a hard doghouse, if I was ready to buy at the time it would have been a serious contender.
Greenheart
Well-Known Member
Contender? Oh, that I would like to see...a Contender dinghy with a cabin. :biggrin-new:
Mind you, it's been done with the much smaller Mirror...
wombat88
Well-Known Member
Excellent 'micro cruiser' I assume it has a solar powered drinks cooler?
Back to motor sailers.
I assume something like the Cox Master Mariner, with a long central keel and two bilge keels will not go astern with any accuracy?
Would you describe the mizzen on a ketch rigged Cox as being more decorative than anything else? Yes, such a thing exists...
Research continues and boats are turning up...
Back to motor sailers.
I assume something like the Cox Master Mariner, with a long central keel and two bilge keels will not go astern with any accuracy?
Would you describe the mizzen on a ketch rigged Cox as being more decorative than anything else? Yes, such a thing exists...
Research continues and boats are turning up...
alant
Well-Known Member
Jcorstorphine
Well-Known Member
Going astern. I have a 21 foot motor sailer with a long keel and two 1 ft deep bilge keels. I have no real problem going astern the entire length of the marina. Trick is to give it a belt astern than back into neutral then back into reverse at about 1000 rpm.
Ketch. One of my previous boats was a small ketch rigged MS and the mizzen was a great asset as I could set mizzen and genny from the cockpit.. Also was good to set as a steadying sail in a beam sea. If you are into fishing, setting the Mizzen will keep the boat pointing into the wind.
That said, the above attrbutes will depend on the balance of the sail plan and the reverse will also depend on prop size, shape and size of rudder etc.
Rivers & creeks
Well-Known Member
Those are two polar extremes, I suspect very few motorsailor owners occupy those extremes. We have a young family, like most they dislike it when the boat heels or they get hit with spray though I'm sure there must be some who do! Families value a comfortable, safe magic carpet to explore in. We've lost count of the number of men - always men - who bemoan the fact that the partner and children never want to come sailing with them anymore and you look at their choice of boat and you aren't surprised.
When the mood takes us we set all the canvas we have and crack-on like the best and when we don't want to we've plenty of options. There's happiness, a family and a good boat for going to windward but no way to have all three.
And remember, the English weather is better in a wheelhouse
Greenheart
Well-Known Member
Not only families prefer comfort.
I mainly sail dinghies. I love what they do well, but I know what they, and yachts which ape their pure performance, do badly...
...they may sail beautifully, and they may please their (male) owners for as long as the weather is fine...
...but they're a last-choice, limited helping of fun in miserable weather. Fortunately, there's a solution...
...don't buy a yacht, get a misery-proof motorsailer, plus a top-notch dinghy for top-drawer sailing thrills in good weather.
I notice wombat88's avatar pic features a dinghy, so maybe he's halfway there already? :encouragement:
Rivers & creeks
Well-Known Member
Dan that's the enlightened path to happiness, few tread that path but those who do reach Nirvana.
wombat88
Well-Known Member
More than halfway, the avatar pic is my 1959 Merlin built by Chippendale that I sold earlier this year, I kept on getting very wet. The rest of the fleet is in my garage, an N12 from the '40s, a Tideway for picnics and a Swift cat if anyone remembers what they were. So yes, I can get out on the water in a lively wooden and varnished craft and thoroughly enjoy myself, if not leaking they are my pride and joy.
The motor sailer (others may call them what they wish) has a very different and much more social purpose. It will also extend the season by several months and perhaps act as a mothership for the above.
Marinas are littered with unwilling families being exposed to weather and discomfort assuming it is their duty. It is at its worst in March and April when the new owner decides it is time for the family to 'enjoy' the craft he acquired over the winter months and has yet to sail...
Michael
NUTMEG
Well-Known Member
Well I came close to selling my CW28 ketch but some here, and my missus, made me see sense before I committed myself too far.
At this time of year Rhoda Rose is still in commission and makes a lovely warm cosy weekend retreat. I have a thing about gaffers but have realised that a wheelhouse motor sailer really does make sense in our climate. My social life revolves around the boat, the boatyard and local to the boat sailing club so 12 month use is vital and Rhoda Rose is perfect for that.
I have my little 14' lugger to cater for purist sailing urges but she is at home in the garden for the winter.
Don't know what the OP has against the smaller CW's, every bit as good as Cox's et al.
At this time of year Rhoda Rose is still in commission and makes a lovely warm cosy weekend retreat. I have a thing about gaffers but have realised that a wheelhouse motor sailer really does make sense in our climate. My social life revolves around the boat, the boatyard and local to the boat sailing club so 12 month use is vital and Rhoda Rose is perfect for that.
I have my little 14' lugger to cater for purist sailing urges but she is at home in the garden for the winter.
Don't know what the OP has against the smaller CW's, every bit as good as Cox's et al.
wombat88
Well-Known Member
I have nothing against the smaller CWs, but I prefer the idea of two helming positions. Also, the outside 'picnic area' on a CW seems significantly less from what I have seen.
As can be gathered, sailing ability and even interior space are low on my list.
NUTMEG
Well-Known Member
I would not swear to it but iirc from reading Caer Uffas (Mike), of this parish, book on the history of Colvic Watsons there are inside and outside options on many boats from the 19' up to the 26' versions. Indeed my 28 ketch has a tiller if you feel like using it. The cockpits are not small but maybe a different shape, I think from memory that the Cox Master Mariner cockpit was a bit longer but narrower then the 22' CW.
It just seems a pity to exclude them as they seem to tick your boxes and the smaller ones can often be had for not a lot of dosh. Why not PM Mike who knows all that is worth knowing about Colvic Watsons? Just a thought.
Greenheart
Well-Known Member
15th March 2020
Why was that, Michael? I ask because for as long as I've been aware of them, I never wanted any Hardy either, and their motor-sailor seemed an uncommonly poor compromise. Square-ended and heavy, slow under power, thirsty on fuel and with sails apparently cut down from a dinghy's...
...the weird thing is, I've begun to want one. Much smaller and cheaper than the Fisher 25, but with at least some of the F25's weather protection and that air of redoubtable solidity. They seem to have a separate loo downstairs too; and very usefully, unlike the F25 they have bilge keels.
Small enough to get just about anywhere, even under low bridges with a tabernacle mast, and sit comfortably when she arrives. I like her.
Also, some Hardy 20s have biggish outboards instead of inboards. There might be fun available from de-dieseling a cheap Hardy motorsailor with a broken Volvo, and giving her a 75hp two stroke o/b instead. No idea if the motorsailor's keels make that impossible, but I doubt it.
Why was that, Michael? I ask because for as long as I've been aware of them, I never wanted any Hardy either, and their motor-sailor seemed an uncommonly poor compromise. Square-ended and heavy, slow under power, thirsty on fuel and with sails apparently cut down from a dinghy's...
...the weird thing is, I've begun to want one. Much smaller and cheaper than the Fisher 25, but with at least some of the F25's weather protection and that air of redoubtable solidity. They seem to have a separate loo downstairs too; and very usefully, unlike the F25 they have bilge keels.
Small enough to get just about anywhere, even under low bridges with a tabernacle mast, and sit comfortably when she arrives. I like her.
Also, some Hardy 20s have biggish outboards instead of inboards. There might be fun available from de-dieseling a cheap Hardy motorsailor with a broken Volvo, and giving her a 75hp two stroke o/b instead. No idea if the motorsailor's keels make that impossible, but I doubt it.
Stemar
Well-Known Member
Another zombie thread!
fredrussell
Well-Known Member
And you will know us by the trail of the dead