A word of warning about filters!

[julians]

My guess is that the op was supplied with the wrong filters, ie ones with a slightly different thread meant for a different engine, but will look at first glance like the correct filter.

I would have no issue with using non engine manufacturer filters ( and other parts ) as long as they matched the manufacturers spec.

 

[Portofino]

Seems like rampant thread drift to me caused by forum members suffering from years of VP brain washing.

We are NOT talking about 'knock off' parts we are talking about consumables from reputable suppliers meeting the correct OE specification.

Simply inventing scenarios for insurance cop out's due to use of non branded filters is a nonsense. Just think about it.... Volvo Penta D1 fitted with a Perkins Powerpart filter, label on the engine says manufactured by Perkins. Yanmar LP with a Toyota branded filter, Nanni with Kubota branded filter. Filter head on Volvo looks like standard Mann & Hummel filter head also used on many Deutz motors, VP and Deutz branded fuel filters both manufactured by Mann & Hummel, are we saying one cannot fit Deutz marine engine with Mann & Hummel VP branded fuel filter, calling it a 'knock off' part.

How about engines no longer in production, for example Ford Sabre 212, some fitted from new with Sabre branded CAV fuel filters, some with Ford Motorcraft branded CAV. CAV brand is now Delpi and Sabre branded fuel filters have not been around for years, sort that one out.

Boijangles - yeh i do use genuine VP oil -once a year manage to pump out 8 L ( for (9) and replace along with genuine VP parts
This Y bill 400 Euros oil + air + fuel + Rocor primarys + impellar - for a twin set up Kad 300


Latestarter
I think we are saying the same thing?
ITs perfectly accepable in my view to use none genuine parts like filters -but in the event of a claim relating to that part causing / initiating the claim , The Insurance Co may refute it.
I would like a letter of endorsement from X engine bulder that none genuine part is ok ( eg ford stopped making filters for sabres years ago or never made filters anyhow -and reccomend brand XYZ -which the claimant has used an X so = no insurance "cop out "

 

[Latestarter1]

Boijangles - yeh i do use genuine VP oil -once a year manage to pump out 8 L ( for (9) and replace along with genuine VP parts
This Y bill 400 Euros oil + air + fuel + Rocor primarys + impellar - for a twin set up Kad 300


Latestarter
I think we are saying the same thing?
ITs perfectly accepable in my view to use none genuine parts like filters -but in the event of a claim relating to that part causing / initiating the claim , The Insurance Co may refute it.
I would like a letter of endorsement from X engine bulder that none genuine part is ok ( eg ford stopped making filters for sabres years ago or never made filters anyhow -and reccomend brand XYZ -which the claimant has used an X so = no insurance "cop out "

I would suggest that there is no legal precedent that insurance company has ever taken such a course of action, suspect VP marketing may be responsible for such stories.

As to Sabre example, perfectly valid, VP no more manufacture filters than Ford Power Products or Sabre did, simply a branding exercise.

In reality I suspect quite the opposite, when dealing with large pieces of construction equipment where any failure of the engine or hydraulics can run into many thousands of Dollars attributable to a filtration failure particularly when loss of use comes into play, if insurance company can nail reputable filter supplier for zillions of $ for consequential damage instead of dipping into own pockets they just love it!

 

[volvopaul]

I have never had any surveyor or insurer ask what filters or other service items are fitted relating to make . Simple rule , if your in warranty period use the dealer and genuine parts . If your nit then it's your own choice . Insurers do ask for service history which is correct , after all why should they pay out on a neglected engine etc .

17 psi would not blow a filter off. As I've said before I've only ever had one do this in 30 plus years. I'd say thus us a freak incident and nothing to blame non genuine parts for . However I've seen non genuine items like cheap bellows make a real mess, now that's false economy .

 

[kashurst]

The problem for those of us not "in the trade" is being able to identify what is a genuine but not Volvo/CAT etc branded filter from some dodgy copy that could fail.

 

[Latestarter1]

I have never had any surveyor or insurer ask what filters or other service items are fitted relating to make . Simple rule , if your in warranty period use the dealer and genuine parts . If your nit then it's your own choice . Insurers do ask for service history which is correct , after all why should they pay out on a neglected engine etc .

17 psi would not blow a filter off. As I've said before I've only ever had one do this in 30 plus years. I'd say thus us a freak incident and nothing to blame non genuine parts for . However I've seen non genuine items like cheap bellows make a real mess, now that's false economy .

No time for insurance company what if's prefer to deal with factual stuff.

I have surveyed many engines and choice of filter can often make a difference between ticking the boxes or going through the service records with a fine tooth comb. For example once went over a Cummins K19 650 in a tug/line handler, when I saw engine had been fitted with Coopers oil filters I went through the records like a dose of salts. No evidence of a top set in nearly 11,000 hours, if engine had been fitted with say Baldwin, Donaldson, Fleetguard or Mann & Hummel I would not have gone looking for trouble.

Some common rail fuel systems have in excess of 90psi at the on engine last chance filter filter head, now that is serious pressure.

As OP was supplied with reputable filters I expect we will eventually have the whole story.

PS I may have to find a home for thirty Volvo 73 automotive engines circa 2003, any use for uprating older 70 Series marine engines??

 

[Freebee]

I spent 16 years working for a leading filter manufacturer, a lot of that time was spent on filtration development. I cant see how the engine kept going if the filter had blown off, unless it happened only seconds before it was discovered. This scenario would lead me to believe that the filter had slowly become unscrewed and during this process the pump managed to keep fuel flowing sufficiently to both service the leak and keep the engine running. This would indicate to me one of two possible scenarios:
1. the filter was not fitted correctly,ie. the rubber seal was not lubricated with fuel before the filter was tightened to the recommended tightness and during the voyage became unscrewed.
or 2. The threaded support plate had an over size thread for whatever reason faulty manufacture or wrong filter. I have to say that the threads normally cut into this plate are normally on the upper tolerance to allow for imperfections on the screwed boss and slight imperfections in the casting flatness thus the filter will float slightly and the seal will be fully activated when its tightened properly.

of course the filters have been handed back to the manufacture for their comments so the truth may never be known as my guess is they will say" not our problem not fitted properly but here's a couple of free replacements", if its faulty manufacture they would be unlikely to air their dirty washing in public.. always best to investigate this sort of thing as much as you can before you hand the offending article over. in my opinion

interestingly even 30 years ago we sometimes found pirate products ,made in somebodys back yard in china of afghanistan or somewhere else. these backyard manufacturers concentrated on perfecting the paint finish, lettering and the box, rather than worry about the workings. These would often fail in use and get passed back to us with accusing complaint letter. we would never revealed our findings to our customer, because of the adverse publicity just absorbed the claim but pursued the pirates privately and relentlessly

 

[Latestarter1]

The problem for those of us not "in the trade" is being able to identify what is a genuine but not Volvo/CAT etc branded filter from some dodgy copy that could fail.

Hand on heart have never heard of let alone seen dodgy copies of main stream filters, until OP mentioned it............If one was going to produce copies you would go for OEM branded representing best margin for your trouble. Filter distributors have eyes and ears everywhere and container load of Mann & Hummel filters would be around the industry like wildfire.

 

[Freebee]

You don't hear about pirate copies because the manufacturers keep quiet for reasons mentioned above. On rereading some of this thread I noticed the comment about filters spitting out the rubber seal, having spent many hours reproducing this problem I can explain it. firstly all our spin on filters oil or fuel had to withstand 5000 pulses from 0 -200 psi at the rate of about 5 pulses per minute.

Often the groove in which the rubber gasket is fitted on the filter has some manufacturering spotwelds in the bottom.

if the spotwelder was not set properly the spotweld would have some flash metal raised around it. when the gasket was fitted and as the filter was tightened the rough weld would grab the bottom of the gasket and as the filter was torqued the rough metal would bite into the gasket and the rubber would suddenly stretch as the natural tendency for the rubber is to rotate in the groove as the filter is seated.hence at this point there is a bit less rubber and its is not squished sufficiently fuel or oil pressure will blow it out in this spot.

this is also the reason for lubing the gasket when fitting it allows the gasket to rotate slightly as its being tightened and get an even squishing.