a real tragedy to our follow cruiser

[grumpygit]

I was referring to sailplan really. How to set up the boat in a way that you get where you want to go without compromising safety.

I'm sure most of us do this kind of risk assessment and balancing all the time- whether it's not flying the kite at night, or maybe pushing for more boat speed to ensure arrival at an unlit harbour in daylight. Or the risk inherent in deck work to set up a pole and preventer vs safer sailing once they are in place.

So not a 'plan' that is dreamt up on a sofa months in advance, but decisions made to reflect all of the relevant factors in real time.

Our last cruiser was 16+mtrs, 28t and about 120 sqm of cutter rigged canvas and mostly just my wife and myself sailing the boat. I had made conscious decisions in very early days, No poles whatsoever and no kite flying with just the two of us. This wasn't any sort of fancy or conscious risk assessment for me it was just pragmatic common sense.
We, well especially me never had a clinical thought for what we did, such as how do you push a boat? You have the option of what to fly regarding the weather situations, and hopefully the ability to trim correctly for what you do had flying but as Vic say's #74 "we do in 1000 different situation when the shit hit the fans is something else." so pray tell me how do you make a 1000 plans?
This is why I have great empathy and sympathy for the captain and crew of this tragedy, as I said earlier, we weren't there and it must have been horrific in the unprecedented conditions, I'm sure everyone of us has been caught in conditions that were not forecast, we have many a time. We are captains of little ships not hindsight. May the grace of God . . . . .

 

[geem]

Our last cruiser was 16+mtrs, 28t and about 120 sqm of cutter rigged canvas and mostly just my wife and myself sailing the boat. I had made conscious decisions in very early days, No poles whatsoever and no kite flying with just the two of us. This wasn't any sort of fancy or conscious risk assessment for me it was just pragmatic common sense.
We, well especially me never had a clinical thought for what we did, such as how do you push a boat? You have the option of what to fly regarding the weather situations, and hopefully the ability to trim correctly for what you do had flying but as Vic say's #74 "we do in 1000 different situation when the shit hit the fans is something else." so pray tell me how do you make a 1000 plans?
This is why I have great empathy and sympathy for the captain and crew of this tragedy, as I said earlier, we weren't there and it must have been horrific in the unprecedented conditions, I'm sure everyone of us has been caught in conditions that were not forecast, we have many a time. We are captains of little ships not hindsight. May the grace of God . . . . .

We fly the kite. Its165m2, with just two of us. We also have twin poles. For twin headsails. We have flown the kite hundreds of times. It's like anything you are familiar with. It gets easier the more you do. We have been caught in a squall with it a few times. The rope drum on the windlass is handy for pulling down the snuffer when it gets a bit frantic?
On long passages it makes so much difference to our speed we wouldn't be without it even though the risks of going overboard are higher

 

[sailaboutvic]

Risk are part of the game , it's how you manage tho risk ,

 

[Star-Lord]

This is why I never liked boats with the main sheet/traveller in the middle of the cockpit. Fine maybe for Sunday racing around the buoys, but for cruising long distance it's a constant source of danger you need to be acutely aware of. When you're very tired and/or?hits the fan, it's easy for this awareness to fade and go terribly wrong in mere moments.

Looking at this CNB66 cockpit, it seems exceptionally ill suited for going offshore in rough weather. Wide open spaces to cross with handholds far apart, low coamings to tumble out of and sharp corners to crack your ribs on. It looks nice for a sundowner though, which is probably what sells it.

You need a professional crew for this imho.

 

[grumpygit]

(a)The rope drum on the windlass is handy for pulling down the snuffer when it gets a bit frantic?
(b)On long passages it makes so much difference to our speed we wouldn't be without it even though the risks of going overboard are higher

Of course it comes down to fitness, agility and age, I ceased and came off the boat to have 3 orthopaedic replacements due to being an arthritic sufferer. So you see we are all different.

(a) I was always taught there was only one rope on a boat, and that was on the ships bell

(b) A very strange statement to in trying to portray safety at sea?

One point I keep forgetting to mention regarding the outcome of the enquiry, is the modern the scourge of the "blame culture"

 

[SofiaB]

I'm considering a CNB 66 and I've read the report about this couple; very tragic. The boat is sold for easy sailing short handed. But before reading this I questioned why I would need this size boat as a couple. Then, after reading the story it further answered the question. In my research of this boat, what puzzled me the most is that there are no owner forums that I found as the first thing I wanted to do was "speak" to owners who sail the boat as a couple.

The next question is why I would want to sail a hotel around. This boat has four cabins and four heads. I have issues maintaining just one which is what I spec'd since I didn't want two.

Before I talk myself completely out of the CNB 66, are there any owners that do sail it as a couple? I'm not trying to cross oceans, but do want to coastal cruise the East Coast, USA and Caribbean, then transport or sail across to sail the Med. I would love to "talk" to owners about their experience with their boat.

So sorry to anyone who knew this couple. It could happen to any of us to sail, no matter the boat or the experience.

Thanks!

 

[Laser310]

I'm considering a CNB 66 and I've read the report about this couple; very tragic. The boat is sold for easy sailing short handed. But before reading this I questioned why I would need this size boat as a couple. Then, after reading the story it further answered the question. In my research of this boat, what puzzled me the most is that there are no owner forums that I found as the first thing I wanted to do was "speak" to owners who sail the boat as a couple.

The next question is why I would want to sail a hotel around. This boat has four cabins and four heads. I have issues maintaining just one which is what I spec'd since I didn't want two.

Before I talk myself completely out of the CNB 66, are there any owners that do sail it as a couple? I'm not trying to cross oceans, but do want to coastal cruise the East Coast, USA and Caribbean, then transport or sail across to sail the Med. I would love to "talk" to owners about their experience with their boat.

So sorry to anyone who knew this couple. It could happen to any of us to sail, no matter the boat or the experience.

Thanks!

Probably the reason there isn't an owners forum is that they haven't made enough of them to sustain a forum - i'd be surprised if they made 10 of the 66's

I have a friend with a Swan 66 - it's a big boat.., and if you wan to keep it looking nice, and keep everything working well, you need a captain, unless you want to spend all your time cleaning and maintaining.

Also, having a 3rd set of hands to help sail the boat would be pretty valuable, and unless you are very experienced with sailing large yachts, will make the operation safer.

 

[john_morris_uk]

I'm considering a CNB 66 and I've read the report about this couple; very tragic. The boat is sold for easy sailing short handed. But before reading this I questioned why I would need this size boat as a couple. Then, after reading the story it further answered the question. In my research of this boat, what puzzled me the most is that there are no owner forums that I found as the first thing I wanted to do was "speak" to owners who sail the boat as a couple.

The next question is why I would want to sail a hotel around. This boat has four cabins and four heads. I have issues maintaining just one which is what I spec'd since I didn't want two.

Before I talk myself completely out of the CNB 66, are there any owners that do sail it as a couple? I'm not trying to cross oceans, but do want to coastal cruise the East Coast, USA and Caribbean, then transport or sail across to sail the Med. I would love to "talk" to owners about their experience with their boat.

So sorry to anyone who knew this couple. It could happen to any of us to sail, no matter the boat or the experience.

Thanks!

This is an old thread resurrected….

However to answer your question, IMHO there are much better boats for sailing as a couple available. I’m sure it’s easily possible to sail a CNB66 as a couple and in benign conditions I expect they’re very comfortable.

The account of the disaster that unfolded in this thread is a catalogue of poor seamanship and poor boat setup. For me, a boat set uo that you need to turn the engine on and motor upwind to reef isn’t a boat I’d want to go sailing in.

Start another thread stating your budget and ‘wants’ and sailing aspirations and I’m sure people will come up with some suggestions.

 

[jordanbasset]

Posted in Wrong thread

 

[Star-Lord]

Two heads is not to be sniffed at. 1 electric. 1 manual.

 

[john_morris_uk]

Two heads is not to be sniffed at. 1 electric. 1 manual.

We have two heads on our boat (they’re both manual as it happens). The CNB has FOUR heads.

The advert blurb from CNB says ‘easily handled by two’ but then talks about crew quarters.

 

[Laser310]

The advert blurb from CNB says ‘easily handled by two’ but then talks about crew quarters.

I know guys with 45ft boats that never fly the spinnaker when it's just them and their wife...

some kind of furling spinnaker, maybe.., but not a real downwind spinnaker.

and god help them if they wait too long to furl it...

I am going through this right now - I think that realistically, much above 40ft, and I can't handle a real spinnaker with just me and my wife.

And, I have a lot of experience - a lifetime of racing with spinnakers on boats of all sizes.

I just think it would be incredibly frustrating to have a nice boat - but to be afraid of _really_ sailing it.

 

[geem]

I know guys with 45ft boats that never fly the spinnaker when it's just them and their wife...

some kind of furling spinnaker, maybe.., but not a real downwind spinnaker.

and god help them if they wait too long to furl it...

I am going through this right now - I think that realistically, much above 40ft, and I can't handle a real spinnaker with just me and my wife.

And, I have a lot of experience - a lifetime of racing with spinnakers on boats of all sizes.

I just think it would be incredibly frustrating to have a nice boat - but to be afraid of _really_ sailing it.

We sail a 44ft boat, just me and the wife. We regularly hoist our spinnaker on passage. It's set with a pole. 165m2. You have to be cautious with squalls and get it down early. The performance benefits of the spinnaker DDW are huge for our boat. The motion improves and we enjoy the buzz of having the boat sail well.
We are a ketch so we also have a mizzen staysail. I will be exploring the possibility to fitting this sail with a top down furling system when we get back to the UK later this year. It would allow us to use it at night with the ability to dowse it easily

 

[lusitano]

Two heads is not to be sniffed at. 1 electric. 1 manual.

No, definitely not to be sniffed at

 

[BobnLesley]

Our cruising chute was 'fun' for light wind days in the Med, but on our twin head sailed (Solent/Slutter rig) 35-footer we released some stowage space and sold the cruising chute and snuffer in Florida, thereafter using our new, oversized and big-bellied lightweight genoa. We did keep the pole and indeed bought a second one too, but only used those in what 'felt' settled weather and for the most part offshore, we didn't even hoist the mainsail; it's boom, secured with a preventer provided a third pole option, that with twin headsail sheets fitted could be 'rigged' and utilised without leaving the cockpit.
The lightweight genoa was strong enough to cope with 20knots apparent (probably more, but that was our choice) above which and whenever we were going upwind, the heavier inner blade-jib took over; we accepted that this wasn't the most efficient of sail plans, but it avoided anyone having to go onto the foredeck in dark/unpleasant conditions.