A question for the raggies

[john_morris_uk]

How wide is this ‘buoyed channel’?

The overtaking rule takes precedence over the power-sail rule in IRPCS so the fact that you’re a power boat and they’re sailing is irrelevant. As over taking vessel you have a duty to keep clear until passed and clear. (And no action on your part will turn you into a ‘crossing vessel either) I suggest you also have a duty to watch your wake doesn’t roll someone out of their bunk either.

How you achieve the above depends on several unknown including how wide the channel is, your boat design, and what wake it makes at various speeds.

Personally speaking, I don’t like being buzzed very closely at high speeds, but I’d prefer a boat went past making minimal wake than going slowly making a great big wake. The critical part is how close you pass at speed. Of course you get some people who are hypersensitive about how close other boats get to them.

 

[Bristolfashion]

Sorry, I don't really understand the question - you can overtake whilst following rule 13

Rule 13 (Overtaking)
(a) Notwithstanding anything contained in the Rules of Part B, Sections I and II, any vessel overtaking any other shall keep out of the way of the vessel being overtaken.

(b) A vessel shall be deemed to be overtaking when coming up with another vessel from a direction more than 22.5° abaft her beam, that is, in such a position with reference to the vessel she is overtaking, that at night she would be able to see only the sternlight of that vessel but neither of her sidelights.

(c) When a vessel is in any doubt as to whether she is overtaking another, she shall assume that this is the case and act accordingly.

(d) Any subsequent alteration of the bearing between the two vessels shall not make the overtaking vessel a crossing vessel within the meaning of these Rules or relieve her of the duty of keeping clear of the overtaken vessel until she is finally past and clear.

 

[Black Sheep]

As said before - width of the channel is important. A big difference between Thames Sea Reach dredged channel and a thin gutway to a drying marina. But also length of it. Ten miles before you can safely overtake? Or 200 metres to the marina sill?

One option not yet suggested is to slow down and follow the line as vessel #4. But that depends on whether you can safely navigate at that speed.

 

[SaltIre]

How wide is this ‘buoyed channel’?

The overtaking rule takes precedence over the power-sail rule in IRPCS so the fact that you’re a power boat and they’re sailing is irrelevant. As over taking vessel you have a duty to keep clear until passed and clear. (And no action on your part will turn you into a ‘crossing vessel either) I suggest you also have a duty to watch your wake doesn’t roll someone out of their bunk either.

How you achieve the above depends on several unknown including how wide the channel is, your boat design, and what wake it makes at various speeds.

Personally speaking, I don’t like being buzzed very closely at high speeds, but I’d prefer a boat went past making minimal wake than going slowly making a great big wake. The critical part is how close you pass at speed. Of course you get some people who are hypersensitive about how close other boats get to them.

They are motoring. Makes no difference, though.

So you are motoring at 5 knots in a buoyed channel, There are 3 of you in line , I am approaching from the stern , I am doing say 20 knots. What would you expect me to do.

 

[Biggles Wader]

Easy. I would do more or less what you did except I would maintain maximum speed and pass as close as possible to the other boats. If I had time I would drop my kegs and moon at them as I passed. HTH

 

[Seastoke]

They are motoring. Makes no difference, though.

Salty where are you.

 

[DownWest]

Matbe the question is your twenty Kts to theirs 5 kts. I get the wake & controlability at lower speeds, so while obaying the overtaking rules, you need to cause the least inconvenience to the boats you are overtaking.

 

[dankilb]

I know that in reality nobody would do this (what are the chances all 3 are listening out?) - but you could call the rear boat up on the radio and let them know your intentions to pass at planing speed to reduce wake… the others might (should) hear and at least it would avoid the mobo sign from the first and the subsequent chain of events?!

 

[James_Calvert]

Fair point, ok so this happened 3 boats motoring 150 metres apart following each other in a chop , I go past number 1, at 20 knots , he gives me mobo sign , so I slowdown to 10 knots pushing a great wake past number 2 , who gives me the mobo sign and being I am a planing boat it make very Rocky for our boat at displacement speed , what do I do for the third boat.

I imagine you are past it by now... So what did you do?

Your scenario has the yachts further apart than I imagined, so not exactly in a queue.

If you couldn't keep further away, could you have slowed down further as I suggested earlier? Maybe just for the period of overtaking.

That might have been recognised as courteous, even if it wasn't no wash. Of course if the yotties weren't looking behind them for your approach... happens.

 

[Bristolfashion]

Meaning no disrespect - I'm sure you know what is required and what is polite. I'd hope for a sensible application of the colregs. However I'd be prepared for almost anything as there are quite a lot of new, untrained & inexperienced boaters of all types around. A few I've seen recently;

1. Passing really close with a massive wake
2. Getting really a bit close from astern - not paying attention or autopilot?
3. "Driving" up the wrong side of the channel.
4. Ignoring any speed limit
5 Weaving around like a motorbiker with a wasp in his helmet

 

[ctva]

Some really sensitive souls out sailing!

As someone with a foot in both camps, IRPCS and a bit of practicality and curtesy covers all.

In a sailing boat, I’m not averse to accommodating MAFI’s by turning in to their wake just like when CalMac ferries pass.

 

[Ink]

Some really sensitive souls out sailing!

As someone with a foot in both camps, IRPCS and a bit of practicality and curtesy covers all.

In a sailing boat, I’m not averse to accommodating MAFI’s by turning in to their wake just like when CalMac ferries pass.

That all depends whether you are in the east Kyle or going through Narrows, doesn't it?

Ink

 

[ctva]

That all depends whether you are in the east Kyle or going through Narrows, doesn't it?

Ink

True, that’s where ‘practicalities’ come in.
Or sail out west.

 

[John the kiwi]

Coming from NZ i am astonished that there is not a specific rule on this in the UK.
In NZ the law is that you shall not exceed 5 knots within 50 metres (in any direction)of another vessel whether underway or stationary. Also 5 knots with 200 metres of shore and swimmers.
In some more crowded places harbour masters are using these laws and radar guns to enforce safer behaviours.
Of course Colregs apply in terms of overtaking and which side of channel etc.

 

[Laminar Flow]

'All due respect, I do not buy the "I need to maintain (plaining) speed to retain control" argument. After all you can't do 20kts in a marina either and where the ability to maneuver is paramount.

The overtaking vessel must stay clear and not impede or endanger the vessel being overtaken, period. If the channel is too narrow or the process of overtaking cannot be done without peril to the other vessels or their occupants then you simply may not, or rather cannot pass. In this case the length of a channel is quite irrelevant. That includes not scaring the living daylights out of the other participants either.

That said, I'm more than happy to hug my side of a channel if something comes up astern that is faster, larger, nastier, or potentially out of control. I try to treat others on the water with courtesy; I appreciate it when the gesture is returned.

 

[vic008]

I take a different view of powerboat wash. I wish they would pass as close as possible. Then you get say 5seconds of wash then all over. Instead of the 5min rock and roll normal.

 

[Bajansailor]

@seastoke Roy - you know perfectly well what the answers to your questions are - or you should know.
There again, maybe not - @BruceK is Roy on one of his usual wind ups, or is he genuinely ignorant?
Why do you have this obsessive desire to try to wind up other people who enjoy boating with posts like your OP in this thread?
You appear to have a pathological dislike (I won't say hatred) of 'raggies' - why? What has caused this?
If you think you are being funny by posting stuff like this - you are not.

 

[grumpy_o_g]

Fair point, ok so this happened 3 boats motoring 150 metres apart following each other in a chop , I go past number 1, at 20 knots , he gives me mobo sign , so I slowdown to 10 knots pushing a great wake past number 2 , who gives me the mobo sign and being I am a planing boat it make very Rocky for our boat at displacement speed , what do I do for the third boat.

Buoyed channel, sailing boats, motoring, are all irrelevant here unless any byelaws apply or one or more boats are RAM or NUC or something. It's basically one boat overtaking another (which happens 3 times).
Three considerations here - safety, IRCPS and courtesy/respect:

• A buoyed channel could be pretty wide or very narrow - so safety means making sure there is no danger of collision. Could you easily avoid the boats even if they turned suddenly into your path (it's no good saying they shouldn't 'cos we know people do stupid things). If you could then safety is covered really I think. I'd guess at about 30 metres absolute minimum and I'd prefer well over 50 ideally - don't usually get that around somewhere like Poole on a busy weekend of course (especially if the bridges have just opened). but that doesn't mean that it's acceptable.
• IRCPS I'm not going to touch as we know where those discussions go but the rules are pretty simple here.
• Courtesy/respect - if you slowed down to displacement speed you'd make even less wash. Would you still be able to overtake the boats - if not would you consider simply following them out instead? It would be best for them but would take you longer.

Slowing to 10 knots and generating a huge wash whilst burning a ton of fuel is silly. No-one benefits but I'm never convinced that the wash is as small as MoBo's think when they're on the plane either. If the issue is simply that your boat is "rocky" at displacement speed then I think you should bite the bullet for a while as you overtake them at 7 or 8 knots with a smaller wash - basically you're saying that everyone else gets bounced around 'by your wash ''cos you can't handle the sea-state at displacement speeds. What would you do if you lost the engines due to bad fuel or nets/ropes around the props? If the issue is time and your wash is genuinely significantly less st 20 knots, to the extent that the sail boats won't feel anything like the same effect then I'm more 50/50. There does seem to be an assumption that you HAVE to get past them though. Why? You're both out there for leisure purposes...

 

[cherod]

Buoyed channel, sailing boats, motoring, are all irrelevant here unless any byelaws apply or one or more boats are RAM or NUC or something. It's basically one boat overtaking another (which happens 3 times).
Three considerations here - safety, IRCPS and courtesy/respect:

• A buoyed channel could be pretty wide or very narrow - so safety means making sure there is no danger of collision. Could you easily avoid the boats even if they turned suddenly into your path (it's no good saying they shouldn't 'cos we know people do stupid things). If you could then safety is covered really I think. I'd guess at about 30 metres absolute minimum and I'd prefer well over 50 ideally - don't usually get that around somewhere like Poole on a busy weekend of course (especially if the bridges have just opened). but that doesn't mean that it's acceptable.
• IRCPS I'm not going to touch as we know where those discussions go but the rules are pretty simple here.
• Courtesy/respect - if you slowed down to displacement speed you'd make even less wash. Would you still be able to overtake the boats - if not would you consider simply following them out instead? It would be best for them but would take you longer.

Slowing to 10 knots and generating a huge wash whilst burning a ton of fuel is silly. No-one benefits but I'm never convinced that the wash is as small as MoBo's think when they're on the plane either. If the issue is simply that your boat is "rocky" at displacement speed then I think you should bite the bullet for a while as you overtake them at 7 or 8 knots with a smaller wash - basically you're saying that everyone else gets bounced around 'by your wash ''cos you can't handle the sea-state at displacement speeds. What would you do if you lost the engines due to bad fuel or nets/ropes around the props? If the issue is time and your wash is genuinely significantly less st 20 knots, to the extent that the sail boats won't feel anything like the same effect then I'm more 50/50. There does seem to be an assumption that you HAVE to get past them though. Why? You're both out there for leisure purposes...

Yes , but who is anyone to dictate to another as to what that leisure should be .

 

[cherod]

@seastoke Roy - you know perfectly well what the answers to your questions are - or you should know.
There again, maybe not - @BruceK is Roy on one of his usual wind ups, or is he genuinely ignorant?
Why do you have this obsessive desire to try to wind up other people who enjoy boating with posts like your OP in this thread?
You appear to have a pathological dislike (I won't say hatred) of 'raggies' - why? What has caused this?
If you think you are being funny by posting stuff like this - you are not.

OMG