drtyrttnscndrl
Member
Yes but it all helps
A newbie looking for some advice on buying a family boat and learning the ropes
- Thread starter drtyrttnscndrl
- Start date
drtyrttnscndrl
Member
Thank you for bringing it back to the original thread
La Napoule Boat Show and Motor Show
Yes I saw this the other day, cancelled from this year and they already have dates for next year. I reckon I will be there, as long as there is no quarantine coming back to the UK. I did see that airport testing might finally happen in the UK a bit like in Germany.
Don't let this deviate from the original thread though!
Portofino
Well-Known Member
La Napoule is nice and protected from the Mistral effects .
This means when it’s very windy , too windy to basically comfortably cross the bay of Cannes to get to the Lerins you can pootle out and tuck up under the Theoule peninsula and still enjoy a day on and in the water .
Ok you have not gone far but a least you are out when it’s roasting inland .
Thats why you see super yachts tucked up .......there’s a Mistral on its way , or the tail end .
You do get a bit of “ red rain “ actually sand and dust from the Esterel mountains and adjacent beaches .
We call it red rain but it’s not from the Sahara , has the same effect so boat washing becomes a habit , a necessity.
Danny and his lad will do this before you arrive , or just factor it in time wise .
There’s occasionally some berth available ( for 50 ftrs ) in port la Galere .Mostly reserved for the complex owners , but sometimes they come on the open market .Its a bit dull and it’s entrance is narrow with shoals and exposed when it’s windy .I wouldn’t recommend it for beginners.
When it’s windy @ la nap the marina guys come out ( you VHF them ) with there ribs to assist parking .They do it all the time and have a knack knowing where to kiss and push etc .
The SY s get help every time as they help with the lines at the bow too .They will do the bow line for you even with 50 s .
Personally I can’ t fault S/Skr .
eg our vacuflush toilet packed up .Not a big issue as marina facilities .So went round to the tech centre ( near the airport @ port inland ) and reported it .
The reception lady quickly determined it was the only toilet on board and we had kids , so put me on a “priority list “
9 pm middle of August at a week end two guys turn up and by midnight it’s fixed ( new parts carried in the van regularly)
When they had finished I said thank you etc as I only popped in at lunch time ish , and they said they had another job to go to it was batt charger that had gone on a charter boat .Again spares on the van .
Similarity even when I changed brands to what I have now the S/Sker guys have been super helpful .
eg batteries I asked them and they gave me direction s to a trade place nearby and a name and code I got 40 % discount , had to say who sent me etc etc . Thing is it was a cold November at 5 pm when I asked and they telephoned the guy to say I was coming , he stayed open and put them in the car .Stuff like this is priceless to happy hassle free boating .
This means when it’s very windy , too windy to basically comfortably cross the bay of Cannes to get to the Lerins you can pootle out and tuck up under the Theoule peninsula and still enjoy a day on and in the water .
Ok you have not gone far but a least you are out when it’s roasting inland .
Thats why you see super yachts tucked up .......there’s a Mistral on its way , or the tail end .
You do get a bit of “ red rain “ actually sand and dust from the Esterel mountains and adjacent beaches .
We call it red rain but it’s not from the Sahara , has the same effect so boat washing becomes a habit , a necessity.
Danny and his lad will do this before you arrive , or just factor it in time wise .
There’s occasionally some berth available ( for 50 ftrs ) in port la Galere .Mostly reserved for the complex owners , but sometimes they come on the open market .Its a bit dull and it’s entrance is narrow with shoals and exposed when it’s windy .I wouldn’t recommend it for beginners.
When it’s windy @ la nap the marina guys come out ( you VHF them ) with there ribs to assist parking .They do it all the time and have a knack knowing where to kiss and push etc .
The SY s get help every time as they help with the lines at the bow too .They will do the bow line for you even with 50 s .
Personally I can’ t fault S/Skr .
eg our vacuflush toilet packed up .Not a big issue as marina facilities .So went round to the tech centre ( near the airport @ port inland ) and reported it .
The reception lady quickly determined it was the only toilet on board and we had kids , so put me on a “priority list “
9 pm middle of August at a week end two guys turn up and by midnight it’s fixed ( new parts carried in the van regularly)
When they had finished I said thank you etc as I only popped in at lunch time ish , and they said they had another job to go to it was batt charger that had gone on a charter boat .Again spares on the van .
Similarity even when I changed brands to what I have now the S/Sker guys have been super helpful .
eg batteries I asked them and they gave me direction s to a trade place nearby and a name and code I got 40 % discount , had to say who sent me etc etc . Thing is it was a cold November at 5 pm when I asked and they telephoned the guy to say I was coming , he stayed open and put them in the car .Stuff like this is priceless to happy hassle free boating .
drtyrttnscndrl
Member
Thank you for the advice, and agree anything I can give to a broker to deal with to make it easier has got to be worth it. I'm doing so much research, my family think I'm obsessed. I had a quick look at the berthing rates for La Napoule and they are slightly cheaper but not by much...
La Napoule rates
I've always sought as much advice from others as well as doing my own research and I agree that a lot of people have strong opinions of what is right or wrong but it's free advice which would have taken me weeks or months to find by myself. I think the Sunseeker guy said around €50k fitted for a stabiliser.
Sorry but what is the move?
mcanderson
Well-Known Member
That was a spelling mistake - it should have read movie (Dirty Rotten Scoundrels). It was on yesterday on some obscure freesat channel.
Yes my wife also used the word obsessed many times when it came to finding our boats, but both times I only took her to boats that I thought could work rather than just dragging her to see boats to rule them out. It is all part of the journey.
One point on annual rental berths - there are often long waiting lists and so whilst the pricing is open to all getting on the list and close to the top can require some dark arts. The broker is key here as it is in his/her interest to make things work. With commission of 10% pretty standard on sales of boats in France you can see why they are motivated to close a deal.
Yes my wife also used the word obsessed many times when it came to finding our boats, but both times I only took her to boats that I thought could work rather than just dragging her to see boats to rule them out. It is all part of the journey.
One point on annual rental berths - there are often long waiting lists and so whilst the pricing is open to all getting on the list and close to the top can require some dark arts. The broker is key here as it is in his/her interest to make things work. With commission of 10% pretty standard on sales of boats in France you can see why they are motivated to close a deal.
drtyrttnscndrl
Member
Good to know that we are in the same boat
drtyrttnscndrl
Member
Ah I see, yes great movie, must watch it again soon with the kids!
Hooligan
Well-Known Member
I went from a 6m Rib to a S58 so I totally agree with JRudge. It is all about how you feel and also others feel with you in charge!! My advice would be 1. For the Med make sure a good V shape hull. 2. Upgrade your anchor if it is the original one. 3. Stabilising would be great - I don't have but wish I did.4. If you do not know your way around a big diesel engine and the electrics it would be worth getting some rudimentary knowledge. My observation is that there is actually quite a lot you can do on your own when things go wrong (with help from the forum as well) before you need to go get someone to do it for you. Good luck and welcome to the black hole
Hurricane
Well-Known Member
Welcome to being a Princess Owner.
I would like to pass one simple comment on to you about boat handling.
I think my past experience was like you - loads of experience in RIBs but nothing in with twin shafts.
In fact my experience was more with sailing dinghies and the craft associated with their support (Rescue Boats etc)
I stepped into our first shaft boat 15 years ago - a Sealine T51 so very similar in size to your new P50.
At that time, the logic I had in my head was based around RIBs with outboard motoes.
It was in connection with going backwards and in my case going backwards into the boat's home berth.
My head was thinking that the prop "sucked" its way back - just like the outboard does on a RIB.
At the time, it wasn't natural for me to think that it was the other (offside) shaft in reverse that would move the boat in the correct direction.
Even putting the nearside prop forward to help the boat round wouldn't have entered my mind.
Of course, with 15 years experience, it is now natural for me and I can switch between RIBs and shafts.
I hope this comment will be helpful if you understand my poor explanation.
The other thing - Stabilisation.
Our Princess is a 67 - the number of times that I have wanted stabilisers on our boat I can count on the fingers of one hand.
It must depend on where you take your boat
There was an area in the Med where we went where there was lots of boats creating lots of wake.
So we just don't go there anymore.
Sometimes, we might set a kedge anchor or tie back to rocks to keep the bow into any swell but really, if it is too lumpy we move to somewhere where it isn't lumpy.
Running the generator all the time to keep a gyro stabiliser running is totally foreign to my concept of "peace at anchor".
Lots of people on here love their stabilisers - I'm one that is perfectly happy not to have one.
hutchibi
New Member
Thanks for the feedback advice, which is much appreciated. I'm very conscious that I've got plenty to learn and will be arranging for an instructor to be onboard at all times for the first few months until the family and I feel confident. Your points about how RIB/ sailboat handling doesn't necessarily translate makes a lot of sense and I'm going to try consciously to unlearn things I already know at the beginning. I guess that the one upside of transferring from other types of boating is that you start with a healthy respect of the sea and awareness of your own limitations!
The stabiliser question is quite a big one for sure, not least financially. I'm going to keep an open mind for the first few months, but definitely the most important factor is that everyone has a good time and embrace the boating lifestyle. In many ways I hope we find we can do without, but if it makes the difference to everyone enjoying themselves then I'll think of it as money well spent!
jrudge
Well-Known Member
Hurricane. I am in Mallorca as you know. Roll at anchor is a problem I guess half the time one way or another and makes it untenable probably 20 % of the time. This is a combo of wake and weather. In Cala Dor if the weather is from the east the majority of that coast is in protected. There are places but some have been closed by the weed police or a full. So I head back in - of don’t go out.
Could we move an hour away. Almost certainly yes but then I have to come an hour back as we are not on tour.
For me it will work. Others will have a different view. Rolling all night on anchor is not amusing !
Could we move an hour away. Almost certainly yes but then I have to come an hour back as we are not on tour.
For me it will work. Others will have a different view. Rolling all night on anchor is not amusing !
TonyR123
Well-Known Member
+1 for a seakeeper (or equiv) at anchor. I would never have a boat without stabilisation. Another key decider for me was size of mooring. The manhatten 52 for example is a much bigger boat then the prestige 5x0. In my port the sunseeker have been on 18m moorings, while the 5x0 is on a 15m mooring. As the 18m mooring is almost twice the price of a 15m I soon got rid of a few boats.
I did have a smaller boat for one year but that only told me what was missing for the upgrade. If I really knew what I wanted then would go straight to 50 foot without question - but as it was my first boat I didn’t really know.
oh and IPS is great! As are anchor cams
I did have a smaller boat for one year but that only told me what was missing for the upgrade. If I really knew what I wanted then would go straight to 50 foot without question - but as it was my first boat I didn’t really know.
oh and IPS is great! As are anchor cams
Dickie D
New Member
I’m glad to see this post as I’m in the same “boat”. Pun intended. I’ve done three months detailed researchreaching out to people I know in the industry etc. Feedback seems to be 1). Buy a boat you can grow into as broker fees are around 8% so getting it wrong is an expensive mistake. 2). Or buy used a few years old as expect to get a few pontoon knocks Etc abd upgrade later. There are loads of great quality 10-15 yo‘s for sale which will hold their value and the resale brokerage won’t be the cost of a new luxury car!. 3). Buy British as its one of the best resales due to reliability and rock solid build quality with older British being better than more modern ones. 4). Have cash ready as brokers are really not interested in anyone who has to organise finance as the boat is sold to a cash buyer long before Lombard or SGC get their act together. 5). UK to Med on a regular basis will Cost you dearly as the used market will balk at anything with more than 100 hrs per year when you come to sell. Hope that’s useful. Personally I’m finding brokers impossible to deal with at the moment which will be my subject of a different post.
Hurricane
Well-Known Member
Yep - I see you point but it is the choice of how you do your boating.
As you know we cruise to the same places as you but we do it from the mainland.
Using careful weather planning, we avoid the swell and go into marinas when we can't avoid it.
Using this strategy, I have only really been caught out twice in the last 6 years.
One was during some really bad weather in Mallorca
We were alternating between Santa Ponsa and Palmanova - we should really have gone into a Palma marina .
Even then the swell wasn't a problem - it was the wind and we ended up dragging anchor - that incident was the driving force behind changing to a big Rocna anchor.
The other time was overnight in Es Trenc which is one of your local haunts.
The boat went sideways to a big swell and I don't believe any stabilisers would have helped much anyway.
Quite simply, we shouldn't have been there.
Es Trenc is very exposed anyway.
This video was made after that cruise - it shows how we planned it.
Menorca is nice but much more exposed to the mistrals so when we left Sant Carles, we saw a weather window to go safely to Menorca.
As the cruise developed, we gradually moved east - through Mallorca to Ibiza and eventually Denia on the mainland.
Keeping ahead of the weather all the time.
Then marina hopped back to Sant Carles
EDIT
The section of the video between 2min 30sec to 3min 10sec shows Mondrago.
As you know, one of the nicest calas on your side of the island.
You can see from the video that there was absolutely no need for stabilisers at that time.
And yet, just round the corner Es Trenc had very uncomfortable swell - too much for any stabiliser system.
This shows that with careful planning, you avoid the need for stabilisers.
And, as I said above, I don't really want to anchor in some of the lovely anchorages and run the generator just to keep stable.
I would rather go somewhere else where it isn't rolling.
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jrudge
Well-Known Member
When cruising Ibiza for example we do the same - but Formetera is always rolly regardless. Different strokes for different folks and I have had enough of rolling! It is tiring and no one likes it. you are not wrong - there are more non stabilised boats than stabilised and I have survived for years without one, but for the relatively modest financial outlay ( or not so modest - but I should get a decent percent back when I sell it) I will give it a go.
No one I know who has one would consider an un-stabilised boat.
I will report when it is done.
No one I know who has one would consider an un-stabilised boat.
I will report when it is done.
Hurricane
Well-Known Member
Yep - I see your point.
But we played the same game down in Formentera at the end of last season.
Es Calo was a new one to us on that cruise.
Again, careful planning.
Weather and swell from the west Es Calo was in the lee.
We had a good few days in there.
A magical find for us.
And here's the video to prove it.
That said, we had to run for cover in the end - to Sant Eulalia for a few nights before heading home.
simon
Well-Known Member
I never thought we needed a Seakeeper, but I wouldn’t be without it now after 3 years. It has made life so much easier and more relaxing. We now stay in the anchorage for many hours or even days after the majority have left. The main benefit is being able to sit and enjoy a meal and a drink without forever having to hang on to plates and glasses. It doesn’t matter where you are around the islands passing swell or wake will hit you at some point. We now leave things on the tables and clear when it suits us. I have gone from a “not essential” to it is now a “must have” if affordable.
Hurricane
Well-Known Member
Interesting - Simon - you have been doing this kind of thing for a long time as well.
I don't disagree that passing boats can be a problem.
It still doesn't come at the top of my priorities.
I've never had one but I've been on boats with them.
kashurst
Well-Known Member
I think stabilisers make the difference for people who have little experience of being on a pleasure boat. Sailing boats lean over when sailing but don't roll back and forth, and they are pretty good at anchor because of the deep heavy keel. Fast mobos at cruise hardly roll at all unless it's a bit wild. But at anchor they can be rolly with wakes. wind etc.
A lot of people I have had on board over the years as guests and no experience are surprised/frightened about how much movement there can be. Somehow they expect a 10 - 20 ton boat to behave like a cruise ship.
If I was looking for a 50' plus boat now stabilisers would be on the list - they just make everything easier, more comfortable and less risky for those people not used to waddling about like a duck.
This pic was taken this afternoon at Cabo Roig, Costa Blanca, Spain - like a mill pond,. Go there in July/August you have to be there early and leave by lunch time.
PS the sea is getting a bit nippy now - I didn't linger!
A lot of people I have had on board over the years as guests and no experience are surprised/frightened about how much movement there can be. Somehow they expect a 10 - 20 ton boat to behave like a cruise ship.
If I was looking for a 50' plus boat now stabilisers would be on the list - they just make everything easier, more comfortable and less risky for those people not used to waddling about like a duck.
This pic was taken this afternoon at Cabo Roig, Costa Blanca, Spain - like a mill pond,. Go there in July/August you have to be there early and leave by lunch time.
PS the sea is getting a bit nippy now - I didn't linger!
