A newbie looking for some advice on buying a family boat and learning the ropes

[kashurst]

We are back and forth from the UK to the med regularly with two dogs so keep watching the forum. We are in Spain at the moment until November to allow sufficient "brexit" room, Due back in Spain late January so will post the required details when anyone has the slightest idea what the they may be,
At the moment it looks like an animal export license will be required plus all the jabs..........Seastoke are you watching this?

 

[Sticky Fingers]

OP I guess you'll get all shades of opinion. FWIW I'll add mine; ex yacht sailor, bought our first and (so far) only mobo earlier this year, it's a 45'er on outdrives. We bought this despite not wanting an outdrive boat because everything else is bang on. So I'm a newby.

The points I wanted to make are (1) the right boat is far more important than the length. Forget about 'too big' - It has to work for you, buying something that doesn't work simply because it's 'small' is a bad idea; (2) own-boat training is incredibly valuable, for building experience, skills and most of all your confidence, do lots of it initially and then refreshers each year; and (3) your other/better half needs to be involved from the start. You'll be on your own after a few months otherwise.

Best of luck. Leisure boating really is a stupidly expensive pastime but rewards you with millionaire experiences that you cannot get anywhere else. So I say, buy what you love.

 

[Bigplumbs]

I have read with interest this thread although the sort of money you chaps are talking about is way out of our league. I will however throw in a little suggestion. As you have your property there I would suggest buying a small (20 foot or under) rib or open speed boat to keep on a trailer or in the marina to have a little fun on before you get the super cruiser . This kind of boat will teach you a lot about the sea, boating and weather way beyond what you can learn on a course. It will also be huge fun (you might even enjoy it more than the larger boat). Also get you VHF course done and under your belt.

I was amazed at the differences in berthing prices mentioned by Hurricane and made us think that perhaps we might take our Sealine S24 baby cruiser to southern Spain one day now her indoors is being made redundant and I am sort of retired ish.

What ever you do have fun and try not to shout at each other too much the first time you attempt to Moore in a wind and things start to go south.

Having a young Daughter who is keen is a very positive advantage you can of course shout at her they should expect it

Dennis

 

[PlanB]

Thank you for the reply. I have to admit, the length does concern me, it just means convincing the rest of the family that the sleeping options might be more limited. I do think though as I said that the amount of sleeping we will do will be limited at in the short term. Others have said though that a bigger boat is more stable. I guess I can only find out with practice and I'm in no rush...

When we were completely new to boating we started with a Princess 435 - a week of own boat tuition and then loads of practice had us pretty competent. I think it is important that both you and your other half can both helm and handle lines etc. We found that Mr Plan B was far better and stronger at the ropes than Ms was, so Ms did all the close quarter helming.

 

[drtyrttnscndrl]

OP I guess you'll get all shades of opinion. FWIW I'll add mine; ex yacht sailor, bought our first and (so far) only mobo earlier this year, it's a 45'er on outdrives. We bought this despite not wanting an outdrive boat because everything else is bang on. So I'm a newby.

The points I wanted to make are (1) the right boat is far more important than the length. Forget about 'too big' - It has to work for you, buying something that doesn't work simply because it's 'small' is a bad idea; (2) own-boat training is incredibly valuable, for building experience, skills and most of all your confidence, do lots of it initially and then refreshers each year; and (3) your other/better half needs to be involved from the start. You'll be on your own after a few months otherwise.

Best of luck. Leisure boating really is a stupidly expensive pastime but rewards you with millionaire experiences that you cannot get anywhere else. So I say, buy what you love.

Good advice, thank you. I agree about the boat length, the more I have looked into it, I reckon it’s a temporary reservation that I will soon get over with practice. I’m certainly not handing over the money until I am absolutely comfortable it will work. It feels like where we are in SoF, there is plenty of options and people available to help.
The family are all in, even the eldest daughter has been ensuring that Mum wants to get in on the action. TBH, I don’t think she would let me buy one if it was something only I was interested in.

 

[drtyrttnscndrl]

I have read with interest this thread although the sort of money you chaps are talking about is way out of our league. I will however throw in a little suggestion. As you have your property there I would suggest buying a small (20 foot or under) rib or open speed boat to keep on a trailer or in the marina to have a little fun on before you get the super cruiser . This kind of boat will teach you a lot about the sea, boating and weather way beyond what you can learn on a course. It will also be huge fun (you might even enjoy it more than the larger boat). Also get you VHF course done and under your belt.

I was amazed at the differences in berthing prices mentioned by Hurricane and made us think that perhaps we might take our Sealine S24 baby cruiser to southern Spain one day now her indoors is being made redundant and I am sort of retired ish.

What ever you do have fun and try not to shout at each other too much the first time you attempt to Moore in a wind and things start to go south.

Having a young Daughter who is keen is a very positive advantage you can of course shout at her they should expect it

Dennis

Thank you for the taking the time to post, I appreciate the advice. I can see what you are saying, we both learnt our Power Boat Level 2 in a RIB in Antibes and it was great fun. If we were staying here longer we would have hired one to get more practice. I’m already studying the VHF course as I think its a requirement alongside the ICC licence. I did think about starting off with a RIB but figured it is only putting off the inevitable and if for any reason we can’t get the boat we want in the timescales, then we will be hiring smaller boats in the first half of next year to get our knowledge up.

Fun is a given of course.

 

[drtyrttnscndrl]

When we were completely new to boating we started with a Princess 435 - a week of own boat tuition and then loads of practice had us pretty competent. I think it is important that both you and your other half can both helm and handle lines etc. We found that Mr Plan B was far better and stronger at the ropes than Ms was, so Ms did all the close quarter helming.

Sounds like a good plan. I intend to get the whole family and dog on the boat when we go for our own boat tuition, to get as close to what will become reality as possible

 

[Portofino]

We are back and forth from the UK to the med regularly with two dogs so keep watching the forum. We are in Spain at the moment until November to allow sufficient "brexit" room, Due back in Spain late January so will post the required details when anyone has the slightest idea what the they may be,
At the moment it looks like an animal export license will be required plus all the jabs..........Seastoke are you watching this?

You guys make me chuckle .
Bear with me .
If you have two legs and loose your passport you go through your local consulate .
If you have two legs and are require medical assistance abroad , its just like the UK you find a doctor or hospital .

Lets now toss in a four legged mammal ...Hmm a dog !

If it looses its passport In the EU the medical provider for 4 legged , commonly known as VET is able to issue a new passport in that jurisdiction .
Take a moment to think about the implications ?

Ok I,ll make it easy .
@ Kashurt saunter into a Spanish vet ( suggest make a appointment) and get a new Sp dog passport .
Same for the OP get a Fr dog passport.

If you have your existing UK ( not lost ) it’s very easy and quick as they transfer the rabbies info and what ever like for like onto the new jurisdiction .

ps Don,t ask a EU doctor for a passport for yourself In there jurisdictions while in Sp or Fr .

 

[kashurst]

View attachment 99878

Who knows at the moment, like a lot of things, despite it only being 3 months away, nothing has been agreed (unless you know something?). The next time we bring her is unlikely to be until April at the earliest due to the quarantine situation in the UK

You guys make me chuckle .
Bear with me .
If you have two legs and loose your passport you go through your local consulate .
If you have two legs and are require medical assistance abroad , its just like the UK you find a doctor or hospital .

Lets now toss in a four legged mammal ...Hmm a dog !

If it looses its passport In the EU the medical provider for 4 legged , commonly known as VET is able to issue a new passport in that jurisdiction .
Take a moment to think about the implications ?

Ok I,ll make it easy .
@ Kashurt saunter into a Spanish vet ( suggest make a appointment) and get a new Sp dog passport .
Same for the OP get a Fr dog passport.

If you have your existing UK ( not lost ) it’s very easy and quick as they transfer the rabbies info and what ever like for like onto the new jurisdiction .

ps Don,t ask a EU doctor for a passport for yourself In there jurisdictions while in Sp or Fr .

Have you spoken to a qualified UK vet?
the problem is not with the EU, the potential problem is with the UK.

 

[Portofino]

Have you spoken to a qualified UK vet?
the problem is not with the EU, the potential problem is with the UK.

Yes , it revolves around the U.K. vet lab status becoming rendered useless after 1/1/21 , or a to comply with the EU in January from the U.K. have a 4 month wait for an EU approved lab ....post hassle etc .

With a EU based dog passport the EU based test will be ok for the rtn ( this is where we disagree ? ) as it more importantly will be ok for travel to the EU as you do freely now .

The “ problem “ is the U.K. vets having to go to the back of a queue when they send away to a EU recognised lab , in the EU often next door to a EU VET practice owned by the same principle(s) .So what iam saying is skip the middle man , the U.K. VET and go straight to a EU VET , because as I said you can .

 

[drtyrttnscndrl]

Yes , it revolves around the U.K. vet lab status becoming rendered useless after 1/1/21 , or a to comply with the EU in January from the U.K. have a 4 month wait for an EU approved lab ....post hassle etc .

With a EU based dog passport the EU based test will be ok for the rtn ( this is where we disagree ? ) as it more importantly will be ok for travel to the EU as you do freely now .

The “ problem “ is the U.K. vets having to go to the back of a queue when they send away to a EU recognised lab , in the EU often next door to a EU VET practice owned by the same principle(s) .So what iam saying is skip the middle man , the U.K. VET and go straight to a EU VET , because as I said you can .

To be clear, as I understand it, from what you are saying, after 1st January, unless anything changes, the UK will accept an EU pet passport (like you say a UK issued passport can be converted to a French pet passport, even though we are non-residents?) but the EU may not necessarily accept a UK issued passport.
So if it's easy enough to do, convert the UK Pet passport to a French Pet Passport and everyone's happy.

And if the UK gets listed status, then we don't have a problem as it's as you were.

 

[Portofino]

To be clear, as I understand it, from what you are saying, after 1st January, unless anything changes, the UK will accept an EU pet passport (like you say a UK issued passport can be converted to a French pet passport, even though we are non-residents?) but the EU may not necessarily accept a UK issued passport.
So if it's easy enough to do, convert the UK Pet passport to a French Pet Passport and everyone's happy.

And if the UK gets listed status, then we don't have a problem as it's as you were.

Yes .
Crucially you both are in the EU now so get it done this trip .
They simply transfer the U.K. lab vaccine dates / details over as still valid in the transition period .
After 1/1/21 i understand the EU will invalidate the vaccine status ,on a technicality as it was no longer done in approved EU lab .Retrospection does not count apparently.
so there will be a rush on in the U.K. by dog owners all wanting a new “ approved EU lab “ vaccine test which no longer exist any more in the U.K. Hence to 4 months wait ish due to the logistics.

From then on use the Fr vet for vaccines etc as you do now with the rtn worm tab .

So the “ problem “ is going to be U.K. vets access to approved EU labs from 1/1/21 .

Eventually as time maybe a summer or two down the line the current UK labs will hopefully re attain EU valid status for testing etc .
Its hardly a top gov priority at the moment.
Take ATC air traffic control, flights to the states from most EU states pass through U.K. airspace and UK flights to the east pass through EU airspace .Thats a bit higher up the pecking than pet passports order to sort out before 1/1/21

Having said all this I can‘t help feeling a bit of deja vu after all the Y2K doom mongering.
Remoaners have morphe’d into doom and gloom merchants it’s all they have left to do .

 

[drtyrttnscndrl]

Agreed, I'll speak to the vet tomorrow, I seem to remember saying it was cheaper to get a French pet passport renewed anyhow and as you say, we have no need for the UK vet to do anything as far as EU travel as its always the return journey worm tabs that need doing before getting back to UK.

Good tip

 

[kashurst]

Yes , it revolves around the U.K. vet lab status becoming rendered useless after 1/1/21 , or a to comply with the EU in January from the U.K. have a 4 month wait for an EU approved lab ....post hassle etc .

With a EU based dog passport the EU based test will be ok for the rtn ( this is where we disagree ? ) as it more importantly will be ok for travel to the EU as you do freely now .

The “ problem “ is the U.K. vets having to go to the back of a queue when they send away to a EU recognised lab , in the EU often next door to a EU VET practice owned by the same principle(s) .So what iam saying is skip the middle man , the U.K. VET and go straight to a EU VET , because as I said you can .

I was told by UK vet, whom after a long chat with the Depart of Food and Agriculture that the passport scheme UK wise may just stop.
The UK gov hasn't decided yet if the existing passports will still be acceptable to the UK. Depending on the deal or not, the UK gov may/will require an animal temporary export license - which is a different thing. The Rabies vaccination certification is a possible problem but if the current passport and rabies vaccinations are up to date and you have an in date certificate (we do) the current passports should be OK for EU land. However I am not counting on anything as I doubt bozo even knows what day it is. SO depending what is actually decide by 1st January if you are already in the EU with your dog and want to bring it back that might be a problem.

 

[Bigplumbs]

Do you think perhaps this thread has gone off on a bit of a Tangent

 

[Portofino]

Hopefully the dog won’ t hold up progress in 2021 .
La Napoule do a very nice used boat show in April as a season kick starter .

La Napoule Boat Show 2020 : 16-19 April 2019 Mandelieu Antibes

 

[jrudge]

Do you think perhaps this thread has gone off on a bit of a Tangent

Yes.

 

[mcanderson]

[U][LEFT][B][SIZE=14px][FONT=Lato][COLOR=rgb(18, 18, 18)]drtyrttnscndrl[/COLOR][/FONT][/SIZE][/B][/LEFT][/U] It sounds like a great adventure you and your family are setting out on. You will be spoilt for choice given your size band and budget for a newish boat on the Cote d'Azur. We have our boat and apartment in Beaulieu sur Mer, so the other side of Nice from where you are looking.

FWIW I don't think you will have problems with the size if you stick with your plan of getting some hands on tutoring. the Sunseeker crew are very helpful and whoever you buy through I would make the provision of a berth for the first season a deal breaker and so you give the problem to them. The brokers will have more access to berths than you will be able to leverage and as it has been pointed out many of the marinas have less and less berth leasing options. I think the quote of c20K GBP for the berth is a bit light. Here is a link to berth costs in Beaulieu - Tarifs | Port de Beaulieu

The only other thing I would suggest is research research research. The more boats you look at online the more you will understand what you like and don't like before taking (dragging) your family along to look at boats.

On here you will get widely varying opinions on the boats you like - but remember it's the boat for you and not for pleasing others. Deleted User can give you a rough idea on how much it is to retro fit a gyro-stabilizer. Being on his boat in any anchorage is very smooth. Most anchorages on the Cote d'Azur get roll from the wake of passing boats. This can at times be annoying, but at others you barely notice it.

PS the move was on yesterday and we watched bits of it. Lots of it is filmed around Beaulieu (Beaumont) sur Mer and so its great to see some of the sights.

 

[Halsey]

I have read with interest this thread although the sort of money you chaps are talking about is way out of our league. I will however throw in a little suggestion. As you have your property there I would suggest buying a small (20 foot or under) rib or open speed boat to keep on a trailer or in the marina to have a little fun on before you get the super cruiser . This kind of boat will teach you a lot about the sea, boating and weather way beyond what you can learn on a course. It will also be huge fun (you might even enjoy it more than the larger boat). Also get you VHF course done and under your belt.

To try to get it back on target .......the OP's budget is clearly out of most peoples league (good for him) BUT in fact IMHO it makes not a blind bit of difference - so long as you are a boater and into boating and not looking for a toy to add to the collection budget doesn't alter the basics of buying and all of our experiences are relevant because again IMHO whatever the budget and whatever you are buying its all about accepting compromises and prioritising them

Years ago now I had the privilege of running a classic car race/engineering team with a couple of seriously wealthy (£bn) clients but their issues were exactly the same as those on a tight budget - its the attitude to the "hobby"that is key and the OPs approach is sound - Enjoyment Dogs Wife and Kids/family in that order

I'm finding it a fascinating thread as we have a long term dream to take our new boat to sunnier climes in 2022 and I am learning a lot even as a long term boater but a relative newbie to MBO.

The budget issue is an interesting one as my ultimate (50ft?) boat would struggle to cost more than £350k so the idea of doubling that and what you get for the additional budget is interesting - I must admit I still like my boats to look like boats and not architectural masterpieces - I wonder will this these hold value as well over time compared to a trawler styled yacht?

 

[hutchibi]

This has been a really interesting thread to read as we’ve been in a very similar position to drtyrttnscndrl, looking to buy a first boat. I grew up sailing and around boats but work, family and other priorities then got in the way for most of the last 20 years until we bought a RIB a couple of years ago to get back out on the water. We’re just about to complete on a Princess 50 MkIII this week which we’ll keep in the Solent, which the whole family is very excited about.

Our thought process was much the same as the OP’s: will it be too much to handle; how will we use it in practice; what features are important etc? Much as has been said above, we decided that it would be a mistake to make too many compromises on what we ultimately want in a boat, just for fear of learning the ropes. We’ll be getting a lot of own boat tuition in the next few months to build miles and experience in different conditions and will initially take it easy with simple confidence building days. For us, we decided that three cabins was essential, with the flexibility and space of a flybridge and separate dining/ sitting areas in the main cabin. We also decided to go for a slightly older boat (11 years). There’s a strong chance we’ll move up to something slightly bigger/ newer in 3-4 years and so I thought it better to spend a little less now, whilst we work out exactly what is important to us in the next boat. Hopefully de-risks a bit the cost of any mistakes we made in our choice, although we’re so pleased with the boat we’ve agreed to buy that it’s hard to see we can go too far wrong ...

The other thing we’ve agonised over a bit is the stabilisation question. Almost certainly makes no economic sense for us, given we may sell again in 3-4 years and I expect that fitting an option like that on an older boat will make very little difference to re-sale value. However, what’s far more important is that the whole family take to the experience and really enjoy it. I’ve got pretty good sea legs, but others not so much and if this is the difference between fun and bad days out/ at anchor then it’ll be money well spent.

I’ve looked at three options: gyro, Humphree interceptors and fins. The interceptors are obviously a slightly different thing as they only work underway, but seem like a good option to combine with a gyro, which doesn’t seem to do much above displacement speed. The P50 is just the right size to fit a Seakeeper 6, before the step up to the Seakeeper 9. Fitted price for a factory reconditioned 6 is £45k, vs £75k for the 9. Some people have cautioned about the extra weight of the gyro, which is weighing on my mind and made me look at the Humphree fins. These run on 24V and should integrate well with the Interceptors for a complete system but they seem quite a bit more expensive to fit. Anyway, I’m wandering a bit off topic from the OP and what we may do is fit the Interceptors first and trial those in the next few months before deciding what to do after that.