A Man Who does not mince his words.

[Tranona]

Electric boat explodes while charging.
LFP Batteries
Stached Training
27000 views in 15 hours
Fire Chief/Expert
You tube.
Make up your own mind.

Why not post a link so that we can all see.

Just an observation. If your description is right this is another example of traction battery banks rather than the small house banks commonly used in yachts Just saying - pending further information.

 

[Trident]

View attachment 197884

The products present a serious risk of fire as a result of large inconsistencies in build quality and construction. The terminals were not sufficiently insulated or recessed to prevent accidental short circuiting, and the earthing arrangements were insufficient, presenting a risk of overheating and fire.

Once again there is no issue with LiFePo4 cells catching fire at all - what it says is that - well its above - it can short circuit and so the wires etc can overhead and burn - you know just like if a LA short circuits. I'll admit this one is in a case so you might not know and I think you'll note everyone here has said not to buy cheap crap on the internet. This model is clearly cheap crap from the internet and like any badly made item was recalled due to hazard. It has absolutely nothing to do with LiFePo4 being flammable or not. But FFS , no one asking you to buy or fit anything to your boat - but if you do buy quality goods (batteries, seacocks or anything else) from a reputable supplier and if you don't know what to look for ask someone who does.

(By the by I now make all my own LiFePo4 battery packs using the best cells - Grade A EVE - and the best BMS - JKS - and supply and do all the wiring internally to ensure its safe. I also , having ripped them open would recommend Renogy and FogStar to anyone as a ready made battery. The only bit I do not do myself, with my liability and livelihood on the line , is assemble the LiFePo4 cells because 1) I can't without a factory and 2) I know how safe and stringently tested good quality reputable cells are.

 

[jbweston]

Make up your own minds

I think the YouTube vid to which this posting refers is this one: Electric Boat Explodes While Charging: LFP Batteries

Note: In posting that link I'm not saying that I think that guy in the video is correct or incorrect in his opinions, nor whether he is factually correct about the circumstances of the incident. I'm just interested.

 

[Black Sheep]

Make up your own minds

Hmmmm. A guy who makes money from creating fear, so he can sell his training courses.
He's several thousand miles away from the incident.
He's certainly wrong about the location of the batteries.
And he's very likely wrong about the chemistry of them.
I've made up my mind to not place too much faith in the accuracy of his rant.
Unless you can come up with any actual information that they were LFP batteries?
Something more than guesswork around similar-ish boats.

 

[SaltIre]

Make up your own minds

Hey.
@shanemax didn't know how to post YouTube clips either. Coincidental - obviously.
Is your mind made up or still open?

 

[billskip]

Unless you can come up with any actual information that they were LFP batteries?

Can you come up with any information they were not LFP batteries?

 

[jbweston]

Why not post a link so that we can all see.

Just an observation. If your description is right this is another example of traction battery banks rather than the small house banks commonly used in yachts Just saying - pending further information.

See this thread

It has all the tried and tested fun of the fair of an anchor thread - facts, fiction, opinions, impatience, speculation . . .

That specific vid is at post #128.

 

[RunAgroundHard]

Deleted post. It’s already been said above.

 

[billskip]

The products present a serious risk of fire as a result of large inconsistencies in build quality and construction. The terminals were not sufficiently insulated or recessed to prevent accidental short circuiting, and the earthing arrangements were insufficient, presenting a risk of overheating and fire.

Once again there is no issue with LiFePo4 cells catching fire at all - what it says is that - well its above - it can short circuit and so the wires etc can overhead and burn - you know just like if a LA short circuits. I'll admit this one is in a case so you might not know and I think you'll note everyone here has said not to buy cheap crap on the internet. This model is clearly cheap crap from the internet and like any badly made item was recalled due to hazard. It has absolutely nothing to do with LiFePo4 being flammable or not. But FFS , no one asking you to buy or fit anything to your boat - but if you do buy quality goods (batteries, seacocks or anything else) from a reputable supplier and if you don't know what to look for ask someone who does.

(By the by I now make all my own LiFePo4 battery packs using the best cells - Grade A EVE - and the best BMS - JKS - and supply and do all the wiring internally to ensure its safe. I also , having ripped them open would recommend Renogy and FogStar to anyone as a ready made battery. The only bit I do not do myself, with my liability and livelihood on the line , is assemble the LiFePo4 cells because 1) I can't without a factory and 2) I know how safe and stringently tested good quality reputable cells are.

Well there you go....when you go and buy a LiFeP04 battery i think it comes as a complete unit encased.
As far as most people are concerned that is the battery, and if the thing catches fire, to most it will be the battery caught fire, now as to which internal components caught fire is of no concern if the result burns you/and others boat/property, so afaic the unit is the battery complete with all it's internal components.
Now for insurance companies I doubt they will differentiate between cell or individual components making the complete unit and calling it a battery, it's a battery..

Can it catch fire or not?
It seems by The Gov UK recall information I posted above they can.

Some people do not go into the science of the individual components before they purchase equipment and use it ...

 

[RunAgroundHard]

The YBW echo chamber.

 

[Trident]

Well there you go....when you go and buy a LiFeP04 battery i think it comes as a complete unit encased.
As far as most people are concerned that is the battery, and if the thing catches fire, to most it will be the battery caught fire, now as to which internal components caught fire is of no concern if the result burns you/and others boat/property, so afaic the unit is the battery complete with all it's internal components.
Now for insurance companies I doubt they will differentiate between cell or individual components making the complete unit and calling it a battery, it's a battery..

Can it catch fire or not?
It seems by The Gov UK recall information I posted above they can.

Some people do not go into the science of the individual components before they purchase equipment and use it ...

Well then don't buy one
or as suggested by a reputable brand after research

Care to guess how many LA have suffered internal dead shorts over the years..

Anyway, bored with this now , you can lead a horse to water,.. but a pencil must be lead

 

[billskip]

lead

Graphite....

 

[Trident]

So apart from never having properly researched liFePo4 you've also never seen Laurel and Hardy

 

[billskip]

So apart from never having properly researched liFePo4 you've also never seen Laurel and Hardy

Why should I properly research LiFeP04?
I like most others buy a battery, I watched a lot of Laurel and Hardy, but I have moved on, bit like batteries moving on.
Comedy could be said by some not to be as good today as yesteryear...as with batteries I suppose

Anyway thought you were bored

 

[newtothis]

Doctors pumped out antibiotics for 50 years until they produced resistant bacteria, unaware of what they were doing. Oil companies with their highly paid chemist's put lead in petrol for 50 years until they poisoned every ones brain. It was scientist who produced the atom bomb. Tell me a little more about scientist and doctors please

No point; you'll have died of a preventable disease before I get to the end.

 

[Marsali_1]

Can it catch fire or not?
It seems by The Gov UK recall information I posted above they can.

Some people do not go into the science of the individual components before they purchase equipment and use it ...

The explanation to the "...catch fire or not..." has already been provided by another poster but you have chosen to deliberately misunderstand the information provided. I realize that what I am posting will not change your mind but I will post it anyway because there will be someone else reading this who will benefit from the clarification. You are, as we have established previously, entitled to your opinion even though it is flawed.

Something "...presenting a serious risk of fire..." does not have to be, in itself, flamable. A magnifying glass is not, in itself, flamable but presents a serious risk of fire when it is used to focus sunlight onto combustible material. A charged LiFePO4 battery can ignite a fire if a dead short occurs accross its terminals or, in the case of the recalled batteries, it is poorly manufactured and it experiences an internal dead short. In both cases, the source of ignition is the heat generated by the short circuit. The source of combustion is not the lithium chemistry but flamable materials around the battery. The resulting fire is no different than one that would happen from a shorted lead acid battery or the misuse of the magnifying glass.

The other Lithium ion batteries which can experience thermal runaway have a completely different chemistry that will self ignite if the cells are punctured or over charged. If manufactured well and handled appropriately, these cells are safe in normal use. However the LiFePO4 chemistry does not have these issues and that is what makes it the safer choice of the two.

What people need to understand is that a fully charged 314 ampere hour LiFePO4 cell holds over 1 Kilowatt of energy which represents a lot of potential heat in the event of a short circuit. That is why users should know what they are doing before engaging in a DIY installation.

 

[Trident]

On a tangental note , poor quality components are all over the market in recent years - especially with Amazon and Ebay becoming so popular. I have never encountered a fire caused by LiFePo but I have dealt with rewiring several boats using LA chemistry , but not because of the LA but because of either poor installation ( wires too small, lose connections, trapped or rubbing wires due to insufficient strain relief etc ) but more recently because of crappy parts. On one super yacht style mobo I replaced 6 melted and burned battery cut off switches - all stickered up as suitable amp rated - and all bought for about £10 each of eBay as it turned out. On a boat owned by the director of an electronics company of all things , I had to replace inverters that caught fire (eBay again £30 when a suitable Victron was £300... isn't an inverter just an inverter he asked? ) and then went through the boat and replaced most of the switches and half the wiring as substandard.

Please be careful with what you buy and where and don't expect a bargain price to be good quality or a CE mark to mean anything. This obviously includes unknown cheap LiFePo4 batteries as well . The good thing in general with LiFePo is that those installing it are cautious - wrongly so vis a vis the chemistry, but it does tend to encourage the seeking of knowledge and the purchase of quality components to make the installation .

 

[billskip]

but you have chosen to deliberately misunderstand the information provided

Please explain where I have deliberately chosen to misunderstand , I have questioned some of the replies which state one thing and then it's contradicted by another poster or by the same poster.

I realize that what I am posting will not change your mind

Change my mind about what exactly?
Explain please

entitled to your opinion even though it is flawed.

What is my opinion? You must know because you say its flawed, and explain which bit is flawed please

When I read something I don't understand I question It, I am not the only one that is questioning, but I may be the only one here answering posts (which I recieve personal insults) and continue.

 

[Rappey]

Once again there is no issue with LiFePo4 cells catching fire at all

here is a video that explains in detail how lfp will not catch fire. Might convince a few on here that the cells are not waiting to burn your boat down.

 

[Marsali_1]

Life po4 does not in its self catch fire very easily but if damaged, overcharged or the BMS fails and the BMS is more likely to fail than the actual cells, it can produce a mass of hydrogen gas and when mixed with air can be set off by a spark from another source.

Please explain the source of the hydrogen gas you say can be produced by the failure of a BMS attached to a LiFePO4 battery cell. Which part of the battery (anode, cathode, electrolyte, case) contains the hydrogen which gets emitted as a gas?