A legal Question.

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hlb

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Our marina has said, they have noticed folk transferring fuel, from cans, into there boats and for health and safety reasons this is not allowed, on the pain of being banned from the marina. The only place fuel can be transferred is on the fuel pontoon and from their pumps.

Does that mean I can take cans to the boat, but just not transfer it there. Or I need to buy fuel some where else.

The options of buying fuel easily, are not easy, as they all seem to be in a cartel.

There's a tidal harbour about an hour away, where we could load cans or get a tanker, but seems bloody hard work and no point less loading 200 gallons, which we mostly cant handle or need.

Now the idea was, that we would take a bit of fuel to the boat. The result is, we have used more than that for heating.

My concern is what the marina should do. I've no intention of buying fuel off them again. Even if I have to buy Tesco's finest.
 
Well, it seems that my guess in this previous thread was spot on, wasn't it? :)
By the same token, it's easy to suppose that they would argue also against carrying cans around, regardless of where and when you use them. Then again, you could try to bring them onboard at midnight, instead of browsing these forums... :D
 
hlb said:
Our marina has said, they have noticed folk transferring fuel, from cans, into there boats and for health and safety reasons this is not allowed, on the pain of being banned from the marina.
Click to expand...

Does the ban affect petrol and diesel? It's not hard to see the health and safety risk of loading petrol from cans, but the same risk doesn't exist with diesel. They may ban it on environmental risk grounds, but you only mentioned health and safety, and also they probably spill far more from their own pumps, because they run faster.
 
As it happens I'm just going through the 'rules and regs' for a potential berth. I think the wording on this point is a little ambiguous. It states that fuelling must take place only on the designated fuelling berth, but also states that if fuel is to be transferred in portable containers and the marina can decide if the containers are fit for the purpose. With your experience in mind it is unclear whether 'transfer' means from the pump to the boat or from the pump, to the boat and into the tank.
 
hlb said:
Our marina has said, they have noticed folk transferring fuel, from cans, into there boats and for health and safety reasons this is not allowed, on the pain of being banned from the marina. The only place fuel can be transferred is on the fuel pontoon and from their pumps.

Does that mean I can take cans to the boat, but just not transfer it there. Or
Click to expand...

Surely this just means you can't empty the cans into your tanks in the marina. I don't think they mean that you can't take spare fuel in appropriate containers aboard and store it for use on a voyage.

However they may require the cans to be put aboard at the fuel berth rather than risk any spill from a leaking can making the pontoons slippery which could result in a 3rd party injury claim.

I
 
Its all to easy to blame HS&E.... I suggest you request to see their risk assessment, to determine why they have come to this conclusion. It should identify the hazards (which i'm sure we all know) then its a case of putting in the necessary control measures to eliminate or reduce the risk..
I think it will probably go two ways:
1. They will not have an assessment! (They should have one for their own pumps as well)
2. If they have one, provides an opportunity to challenge, and i'm sure we could all think of controls to do this safely....
 
Looking at my new 2010 berthing agreement which arrived yesterday.

It says fuelling can only take place at the designated fuel pontoon.

Further down it says "equipment eg fuel cans and other gear must not be left on the pontoons, but must be stored on the boat at all times".
 
I would say it is fair for the marina to stipulate that refueling can only take place on a designated berth for health and saftey/envioromental reasons, unfortunatly this will always be their own fuel berth as any equipment for spills/fires etc would be available. I can imagine the uproar if there was a fire in the marina caused by refueling a petrol boat, with diesel the issue is more the spillage and the resulting enviroment agency actions against the marina. I am sure the marina would not object to you taking the fuel to the boat provided that when you transfer it to your tanks you are not in the marina.

It would also be worth noting the position of the police and your car insurers regarding the transportation of fuel in a private vehicle other than in the fuel tank. I am not sure i would like to be in a accident with say 100 l of fuel in the boot of the car wether it be diesel or petrol.
 
Many marinas adopt the TYHA standard clauses in their contract which stipulate something to the effect of "no yacht tanks shall be charged while in the marina" whatever that means in practice.

Obviously that can be used to enforce a closed shop mentality - or restrictive practice. My marina doesn't sell fuel but still has the clause.

More reasonably, methinks it's to make sure that fuel is delivered in a method that will prevent spillage as much as possible and if it does then damage limitation equipment is on hand immediately....

Who can hold their hand up and say they've never spilt a drop when filling up their mower at home out outboard tank?

I can't
 
A friend of mine often tops up his boat usually about a 100 litres at a time. Transporting heating 'red' at a much lower price from his work place.

Normally when dark, he uses a 'jiggle' valve syphon pump. The 1/2" bore version took about 10 mins to empty a 25 litre tank while the larger 1" bore take only 2-3 mins. He's not spilt a drop yet but it is a major inconvenience and the cans make the car smell. To top up by 100 litres usually take him about 20 mins. At 35-40p a litre, he feels it's worth the saving.

If your marina rules are very strict, you could always take the boat out of the marina to transfer the fuel as long as you transfer them in proper purpose built fuel cans.
 
"Normally when dark, he uses a 'jiggle' valve syphon pump. The 1/2" bore version took about 10 mins to empty a 25 litre tank while the larger 1" bore take only 2-3 mins. He's not spilt a drop yet but it is a major inconvenience and the cans make the car smell"

Hmmm brings back memories of one incident, unfortunately had a very minor spillage but in my enthusiasm to fix the problem ended up slipping and falling headfirst between my boat and its neighbours and surfaced smelling of diesel. Wife in stitches and me having visions of a fine for polluting the marina. Since then I fill up at the fuel station. My heart cannot take it anymore :)

rlw
 
RogerRat said:
A friend of mine often tops up his boat usually about a 100 litres at a time. Transporting heating 'red' at a much lower price from his work place.
Click to expand...

Just so that anyone who reads this has the full picture. Heating red is not always the same a gasoil. Something about 28sec and 35sec. And obviously using low duty fuel like this is totally illegal in the same way it would be if you used it in the car. Unlike the car though, the boat already has red dyed fuel in the tanks so it is obviously not as easy to prove :D
 
Standard "heating oil" - I suppose you could call it red, to me it's sort of orangey, depends if the supplying company uses the same tanker for Gasoil, anyway the former is 28sec: and used to be good quality kerosene, nowadays it's rubbish leftovers and tank ullage.

Gasoil "Red Diesel" is heavier - 35sec: and it doesn't half confuse folks distinguishing between the two.
Only very large domestic installations and commercial ditto use RED (MGO) 'cos it smokes.

I've not seen heating oil sold "loose"

So there's a load of useless information for you.
 
sneddon said:
No Thats good info as I was considering heating oil - won't now!
Click to expand...

Find yer local fuel depot and take along yer cans, else he might give you some if he has some spare. tell him you want RED diesel and he will give you the stuff that goes in tractors and fishing boats and anything else that dont go on the road.

Dont ask for heating oil, cos thats kerosene and goes in boilers and jet engines.
 
Fire Risk on Boats. A few years ago (1974/5) I went into a S Irish harbour with my petrol engined boat. I was standing on the side of the boat pouring petrol from a 5 gall container into my petrol filler. The local boatman came alongside and grasped my guardrail perhaps 10 inches from where I was pouring the petrol. There was a lit cigarette between his fingers. I calmly said "This is petrol" I said it again "This is petrol" he slowly removed his hand and left.

This is how accidents happen. Presumably the boatman "thought" that I was pouring diesel.
But those were the days. Petrol 3 galls for £1.
 
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