A hypothetical situation

[prv]

I was trying to make this a discussion about what to say on the radio, not how clever people are with their DIY. If I'd intended that I'd have put it on PBO.

Exactly, which is fair enough, and why I responded to the abstract description of severity rather than trying to establish what the actual problem is.

It's more than merely "being clever with DIY" though - it's anticipating possible problems and, where possible, making preparations (mental as well as physical) to deal with them. That's just part of seamanship.

Pete

 

[Victoria Sponge]

Just shows how quickly conditions can change.

I wouldn't make a call at that point.

+1

 

[Wandering Star]

I'd launch and board my liferaft after firing off my EPIRB then from the safety of the liferaft I'd shout clear instructions to my crew (normally my wife) to pump harder and not to let the boat sink in my absence or let the bedding get wet. If there was time, i'd ask the crew to pass across my wallet then I'd thank them for a pleasant weekend so far and wish them good luck.

 

[dslittle]

I'd launch and board my liferaft after firing off my EPIRB then from the safety of the liferaft I'd shout clear instructions to my crew (normally my wife) to pump harder and not to let the boat sink in my absence or let the bedding get wet. If there was time, i'd ask the crew to pass across my wallet then I'd thank them for a pleasant weekend so far and wish them good luck.

What? No tea???

 

[onesea]

In that situation I would just carry on. In an F5 very little water would get in on my boat; no more than a cupful.
If it was a forehatch the gaffer tape would come out. I wouldn't be reducing speed so the potential problem would be greatly reduced.

Hmm my boats better than yours...

For me none urgent call to the CG and I would expect a schedule for reporting of some sort.

Upwind into a choppy F5 I would struggle under engine, my fore-deck could be a we bit more than damp of course I would patch ductape mattress floorboard etc etc. Lots of options change of port of refuse etc. Probably sensibly the CG would want me into port sooner rather than later so would possibly offer assistance. Would I except?

That would depend on them my crew and exact situation etc etc

Sailing where I do if they could assist, there is a high likely hood I could phone SeaStart pay my membership and the surcharge and get them to assist. Thats plan B with an engine brake'down and no wind at the moment. Plan A of course is to sail into my berth but that is not without its challenges, I would rather pay a reasonable fee than risk damaging my boat or others.

If I was likely to get charged significantly for services I may well hang on later before allowing assistance.

 

[jerrytug]

The original question doesn't, muppet. Snowy even wrote "Edit: " next to the additional stipulation to make it clear.

Pete

"muppet" ? I say that's a bit strong

 

[Scotty_Tradewind]

F5, choppy sea..... not particularly comfortable in some boats but more so in a yacht reefed, or a heavy displacement yacht I guess.

I'd probably consider a Pan Pan or all ships call to make others aware just in case of needing support. In that instance expect a reply from a coast guard if in/close to U.K. waters.

Multi hull suggests sails.... but aren't some of them a little unstable if pushed too hard into those conditions and readily taking in water through large windows in fairly low freeboard? In that case a Mayday probably more valid.

S.

 

[jerrytug]

Good point about the multi hulls, they would be very vulnerable to a broken window or hatch *if you were unable to patch it* (as per the OP's question).
Scotty Tradewind, would you be kind enough to explain, or suggest a reference, to the differences between an all ships, and a PanPan? Thanks a lot

 

[Scotty_Tradewind]

Good point about the multi hulls, they would be very vulnerable to a broken window or hatch *if you were unable to patch it* (as per the OP's question).
Scotty Tradewind, would you be kind enough to explain, or suggest a reference, to the differences between an all ships, and a PanPan? Thanks a lot

As I understand it an all ships is a mere communication to ask, discuss, point out something.

A PanPan is requesting help although you may not be in imminent danger.

S.

 

[rosewood]

Lumpy sea off sta Albans head. Crash jibe and broke a spreader. Managed to drop sail and started the engine. Called CG and explained situation and said I was motoring (slowly, old boat old engine) into pool. I thought it best to keep them informed in case I lost the mast. Called them when in pool to say I was ok. So I would do that again if in a similar position

 

[Scotty_Tradewind]

Lumpy sea off sta Albans head. Crash jibe and broke a spreader. Managed to drop sail and started the engine. Called CG and explained situation and said I was motoring (slowly, old boat old engine) into pool. I thought it best to keep them informed in case I lost the mast. Called them when in pool to say I was ok. So I would do that again if in a similar position

I know that lumpy sea well.

During my first year of sailing, towed dinghy flipped and broke loose close to. Wind and tide took it into the overfalls....... 'lumpy' in the extreme!

S.

 

[snowleopard]

OK, time to reveal the situation behind the hypothetical.

We were on passage from Inverness bound for Chichester. At the time the problem occurred we were 10M SE of Spurn Head and the wind was W5 so not a lot of shelter to leeward. In the steep chop the forward crossbeam, which I had designed as a walkway, dug into a big sea and cracked in the middle. As it folded it pulled partly out of the two bows leaving a point of water ingress on both sides. We had to reduce to low speed to keep the bows clear of the water.

I asked a crewman to PanPan Humber CG to let them know what had happened as a heads-up in case things got worse. We turned towards the shelter of the Humber. Despite our insistence that we were in no immediate danger and did not need assistance, they sent out the all-weather lifeboat from Spurn who escorted us in. During the 4-5 hours it took us to get into flat water they stood by about 1/2 mile off. Assorted rig tenders and helicopters also turned up to have a look as they passed. Once the water flattened out as we passed Spurn we cracked open the throttles to 8 knots, thanked them and headed up to Grimsby while they went home for tea. Meanwhile the CG arranged for us to lock into Grimsby (yachts normally have to wait till HW).

In future if something similar happened we would either do a 'routine' call to the CG or keep stum. We really didn't need or want a lifeboat though it was nice to see them and I can appreciate how cheering the sight of the big orange boat coming towards you at 20 knots would be to someone in real trouble. Entirely coincidentally, the following morning in Grimsby marina the ILB was doing an exercise. They came over and talked about the repairs I was doing and one of their members volunteered to spend a couple of hours driving me round the town to find resin & glass. What great guys.

Design note: The front walkway was one of my poorer design ideas and in the end we replaced it with a simple cylindrical beam. The watertight front bulkheads were a better idea and would have limited the flooding to a couple of tons of water each side, enough to be a nuisance but not dangerous unless running before a big sea.

 

[onesea]

OK, time to reveal the situation behind the hypothetical.

..........In the steep chop the forward crossbeam................dug into a big sea and cracked in the middle. As it folded it pulled partly out of the two bows leaving a point of water ingress on both sides.

OK I am miss quoting but it would be what I read first, a Pan Pan from a vessel that sounds like its breaking up deserves a Lifeboat...

Also was the crew member calm and collected on the radio or a little stressed?

 

[pisspoor]

Based on my one serious experience I would call the coast guards to advise of the situation.

A long time ago I was bosun on a converted 200ft Hull side trawler, we were about 150 mile South of Southern Ireland when the engine failed we were in very rough seas with around force 7 southerly wind. Straight away the engine room team swung into action to try to restart the engine when it became clear that the engine would not start and that there was something possibly serious wrong with the engine we got on the shortwave radio and advised the coast guard of our situation and that we were in no immediate danger.

After 24 hours and no sign of the repair being completed the coastguard was getting concerned about us, as were we as we were being blown towards the Southern Ireland coast at a fair rate of knots. By 36 hours the wind had blown us within 50 mile of the coast and the coast guard informed us that they were starting to put in place what was needed to to tow us to safety. Luckily by then the wind had moderate a bit and our rate of drift had slowed.

It was just after after this conversation with the Coast Guard that the engine team told us they had repaired the fault and were now putting the engine back together. This took them four hours to do and it took a lot of persuading by the Skipper to stop the Coast Guard from sending out a tow vessel.

Then the moment of truth, the engine was fully assembled, and yes it started. So we continued on our voyage to Alexandria Old Town at the top of the Chesapeake Bay. Though the rest of the trip was not without incident but that is another tale.

PP

 

[Ripster]

As probably one of the less experienced here, I would definitely call it in to the CG and advise them of the situation and of the plan to get in. Chances are that they would ask if you need help or assistance anyway and be happy to keep a check in process going until you were safe.

 

[snowleopard]

Also was the crew member calm and collected on the radio or a little stressed?

The guy on the radio was a Yachtmaster instructor who was a past master at sounding calm when the most inept trainee was about to crunch his precious classic yacht so no, no trace of panic!

 

[ShinyShoe]

Id say a Pan Pan is a request for assistance but with Lower priority than a mayday.

Perhaps your only assistance you needed was then to be tracking you. But now wear their shoes a moment. A boat is cracking. Its 10nm from safety. An ALB takes 30mins to get there and 7-15minutes to launch.

If you cracked open. Its fast. At best you get a call out and there is 45 minds before asset on scene. At worst you don't get to the VHF before the mat goes with the aeriel. You at more than 5nm away so hh may not work and flares are useless. So the best chance of them knowing you sank is a 30minute check in. Let's assume u sink 5 minutes after the last check in. Now 45min+25min+time while they try and contact you for your failed check in. Reasonably you could be looking at 1h45 in the water. That's NOT good!

I'd have sent an asset to keep an eye on you. That asset could have called in to cancel PanPan if they thought it was a cosmetic scratch.

So while I voted routine call based on the case I think it warranted the response you got... My routine call didn't have the likelihood of my window hole getting bigger only sea conditions deteriorating and my call was to advise of a revise ETA.

My point being every situation is different. No harm done have company from a lifeboat

 

[johnalison]

The difference between a pan pan and a non urgent call is a matter of degree and it may well be that your level of concern at the time fully justified a pan pan. I am not going to criticise someone in a position that I hope never to be in. The only technical call that I have made was when a shaft anode came loose on the saildrive off Jersey and a simple DSC call was all that was needed, but then, it was a flat calm at the time.

 

[Daydream believer]

"muppet" ? I say that's a bit strong

Depends on which muppet i suppose

 

[Iliade]

A crossbeam disintegrating is a major structural calamity in the making. A busted window, as per the original mail, could be mitigated with a cushion and a bit of patience.

I have no doubt that I would make a non-urgent, i.e. advisory, call to HMCG if something of that ilk happened more than a few cables from shelter. If I was more concerned than it would be PanPan e.g., I fired off red flares to attract the attention of a nearby fishing vessel (not listening on RT) when my outboard punched an outboard-sized hole in the transom, microscopically above the w/l.

I too deal on the RT with people trying to kill themselves on a daily basis, so would also make the sinking of the Hesperus sound trivial, if not unexpected, but the sight of a Grey Funnel Liner alongside has been a great confidence boot in the past... What else are they going to do with our tax pounds? And anyway it's a good training exercise...

I've not voted as I don't think the poll covers the question as well as I'd like.