A friend has a Perkins 4.108 engine problems

[Piers]

Hi,

Can anyone advise, please? A friend did the ARC and in now in St Lucia with an engine problem. He emails,
-----------------
Dear Friends and family

Re Engine problems on Sliver Slipper

This is an all stations broadcast to try and help solve our engine problem. We are still stuck in St Lucia and have tried everything we know to get the engine running properly again. Can You HELP.
If you can’t help but you know someone who might be able to throw light on the problem then please forward this e-mail.

Engine History. Perkins 4.108 Diesel
The engine was running fine with no issues except a small leak from the fuel injector pump. We had the injector pump serviced in Las Palmas prior to crossing the Atlantic with the ARC fleet. The new pump was installed 2 days prior to our departure so we did not have time to test it out fully but it sounded fine and seemed to be running smoothly. The engine and gearbox were working together as when the engine over revved the speed increased accordingly in both forward and reverse gear. The engine always sounded sweet and smooth, with no banging or additional noise even at these very high revs.

The Problem
Soon after leaving Las Palmas the engine would start over revving independently of any throttle control. Intermittent to start with but as time went by the problem got worse. From idle to 4500rpm in a matter of seconds. Disconnected throttle cable just in case this was an issue to manually control revs but the problem still existed. Throttle cable not the issue. When over revving the stop cable was used and the engine stopped with no problem. The engine would start again each time with no problem.

What we have done so far.
As this problem only started after the new injection pump was fitted this seemed the obvious cause of our problems so we have now fitted two serviced injection pump and the problem has not gone away. In fact with the most recent pump installed the engine would run away in neutral but when any load was applied in gear the engine would struggle and revs decreased. So far we have checked
• Replaced fuel injector pump twice
• Fuel lines into and out of system, all clear
• Bled the fuel system fully
• No fuel contamination
• Checked fuel filter
• Ensured air intake is clear

Conclusion
Too much fuel is getting into the engine, possible cause which has not been looked into yet is blocked fuel injector or injectors but to have 4 injectors blocked does not seem possible. If one or two were blocked the engine would not sound right but when it over revs the engine sounds fine and smooth just running too fast,

Help.
If anyone has experienced a similar problem or knows anyone who can throw light on this then please get back to me or forward this e-mail to someone who may be able to help.

Although we are stuck in sunny St Lucia we did not cross 3000 miles of Atlantic Ocean to sit on our backsides and would love to explore the Caribbean but until we get an engine that works this is our home.

Thank you for your time reading this and hope maybe someone out there can solve our problem.

Take care in the winter storms in the UK.

Best regards
Ian & Wendy
Silver Slipper, Rodney Bay, St Lucia.
-------------------
Any ideas gratefully received.

Piers

 

[volvopaul]

Hi,

Can anyone advise, please? A friend did the ARC and in now in St Lucia with an engine problem. He emails,
-----------------
Dear Friends and family

Re Engine problems on Sliver Slipper

This is an all stations broadcast to try and help solve our engine problem. We are still stuck in St Lucia and have tried everything we know to get the engine running properly again. Can You HELP.
If you can’t help but you know someone who might be able to throw light on the problem then please forward this e-mail.

Engine History. Perkins 4.108 Diesel
The engine was running fine with no issues except a small leak from the fuel injector pump. We had the injector pump serviced in Las Palmas prior to crossing the Atlantic with the ARC fleet. The new pump was installed 2 days prior to our departure so we did not have time to test it out fully but it sounded fine and seemed to be running smoothly. The engine and gearbox were working together as when the engine over revved the speed increased accordingly in both forward and reverse gear. The engine always sounded sweet and smooth, with no banging or additional noise even at these very high revs.

The Problem
Soon after leaving Las Palmas the engine would start over revving independently of any throttle control. Intermittent to start with but as time went by the problem got worse. From idle to 4500rpm in a matter of seconds. Disconnected throttle cable just in case this was an issue to manually control revs but the problem still existed. Throttle cable not the issue. When over revving the stop cable was used and the engine stopped with no problem. The engine would start again each time with no problem.

What we have done so far.
As this problem only started after the new injection pump was fitted this seemed the obvious cause of our problems so we have now fitted two serviced injection pump and the problem has not gone away. In fact with the most recent pump installed the engine would run away in neutral but when any load was applied in gear the engine would struggle and revs decreased. So far we have checked
• Replaced fuel injector pump twice
• Fuel lines into and out of system, all clear
• Bled the fuel system fully
• No fuel contamination
• Checked fuel filter
• Ensured air intake is clear

Conclusion
Too much fuel is getting into the engine, possible cause which has not been looked into yet is blocked fuel injector or injectors but to have 4 injectors blocked does not seem possible. If one or two were blocked the engine would not sound right but when it over revs the engine sounds fine and smooth just running too fast,

Help.
If anyone has experienced a similar problem or knows anyone who can throw light on this then please get back to me or forward this e-mail to someone who may be able to help.

Although we are stuck in sunny St Lucia we did not cross 3000 miles of Atlantic Ocean to sit on our backsides and would love to explore the Caribbean but until we get an engine that works this is our home.

Thank you for your time reading this and hope maybe someone out there can solve our problem.

Take care in the winter storms in the UK.

Best regards
Ian & Wendy
Silver Slipper, Rodney Bay, St Lucia.
-------------------
Any ideas gratefully received.

Piers

Two things spring to mind here.

To allow a Diesel engine to over rev there must be. Problem with the governor, if the fulcrum lever is set wrong or its support is broken this will allow the engine to rev up to destruction.

Or, the engine is breathing ie cylinder blowby, the fumes are entering the inlet manifold in the case of this engine I'm sure there is a hose from the valve cover to the inlet manifold, hence the engine will run on its own fumes and as it's not controlled by the governor will again run until self destruction.

Check the hose or remove the oil filler cap while running to check for excessive crankcase compression.

4108 is a very simple motor so should be easy to identify the over run problem.

 

[sailorman]

I had the same issues with the 4108
it is either a leak in the fuel system ( sucking air) or a blockage, mine was a fuel filter after the pump was serviced & i left the yard to change the filter. They didnt & it ended up a saga with a large bill i refused to pay. In the end i sorted it myself.
I rigged up a 5lt container with diesel bypassing the filters ect, the engine ran perfectly, it was then i noticed that the filter fitted was cunningly the same make as i used. The penny dropped, it had never been touched by the yard, they had lied to me.

 

[aquapower]

Try checking the glow plug as it could be letting in extra fuel.

 

[omega2]

Could be all of the above this thread may assist??

http://www.endeavourowners.com/dscsn/systems/propulsion/surging.html

 

[sailorman]

Could be all of the above this thread may assist??

http://www.endeavourowners.com/dscsn/systems/propulsion/surging.html

Date: July 5, 2000
From: Phil Johnson JohnsonPN@nswccd.navy.mil
How timely! I spent the 4th of July in my engineroom working the same problem.
I'm having the same problem you described. It started about 5 years ago, first only at the end of long hot days on the waterway. It got progressively worse until it would surge every two min. or so even at idle. This past winter I had the main injector pump overhauled ($800) thinking it would cure that problem as well as zero the maintenance meter on it (5000 hrs.). Also new Racor filter, new on engine filter, new hoses, new lift pump....
Well that did not cure the problem. I have had several friendly discussions with the injector shop. The governor is the hydraulic version which is more prone to this type of problem. The injector shops conclusion was it must be air drawn in to the system. In trouble-shooting I have connected a temporary potable fuel tank directly to the injector pump and the problem went away! Tonight I'm going through the on engine fuel system checking the rubber seals in the metal lines from the filter to the pump.
I will have more tomorrow.

 

[Relax.A]

If it has the fuel Fed glow plug that could be a good call by aquapower .

 

[tinkicker0]

Try checking the glow plug as it could be letting in extra fuel.

+1. Likely a CAV Thermostart gone wonky and pooling diesel in the manifold. Usually accompanied by loads of black smoke.

 

[burgundyben]

Or air getting into the fuel, allows the guv'nor in the pump to fly high, my old Perkins did it, tell tail is little air bubbles running back along the bypass line into the tank.

 

[sailorman]

OP please let us know if & when its rectified & what the problem was. Ta

 

[Piers]

OP please let us know if & when its rectified & what the problem was. Ta

Thanks for all the help. I've passed it on but have yet to hear back. As soon as I do I'll let you all know.

Again - thanks for the help.

Piers

 

[sneil]

If I remember correctly there is a non return valve on top of the engine fuel filter the return from the injectors is directly on top have seen them not seal and the problem you describe is the outcome a small amount of air is plenty on those pumps cheap part to change used to be pence now I suppose pounds but a lot cheaper than a blown engine.

 

[macnorton]

As above suggestions + is the oil clean (no diesel in the oil). A leaking lift pump can let fuel into the sump which can do this as can worn rings.
I have had problems with re-con pumps in the past so don't rule that out.

 

[aquapower]

If I remember correctly there is a non return valve on top of the engine fuel filter the return from the injectors is directly on top have seen them not seal and the problem you describe is the outcome a small amount of air is plenty on those pumps cheap part to change used to be pence now I suppose pounds but a lot cheaper than a blown engine.

The non return valve is on the feed to the glow plug from the filter

 

[macnorton]

The non return valve is on the feed to the glow plug from the filter

If its a marine engine the cold start is fed from a separate small tank.

 

[aquapower]

If its a marine engine the cold start is fed from a separate small tank.

That's on the 4107 & 4-99

 

[Latestarter1]

Or air getting into the fuel, allows the guv'nor in the pump to fly high, my old Perkins did it, tell tail is little air bubbles running back along the bypass line into the tank.

Ben is on the button, one of problems with old hydraulically governed CAV DPA fuel pump, if you starve governor of fuel it simply ceases to govern as simple as that.

 

[gordmac]

Is it running on its own oil?

 

[sailorman]

Ben is on the button, one of problems with old hydraulically governed CAV DPA fuel pump, if you starve governor of fuel it simply ceases to govern as simple as that.

My pump was serviced due to this same problem, that service made no difference, it ended up as i stated in #3, blocked fuel lines due to bug.

 

[Latestarter1]

My pump was serviced due to this same problem, that service made no difference, it ended up as i stated in #3, blocked fuel lines due to bug.

If you described the problem to the pump shop correctly before removing the pump they SHOULD have told you it was simply fuel starvation instead of taking your $$$ for a pump service, however I suppose 'no fault found' is not in the pump shop glossary of terms.