A different EU v UK question on boat place

In Spain we have various visa options. The big one being the Non Lucrative Residenca which has a few stipulations (medical insurance, sum of money in the bank etc) but for me, the Residenca visa scheme seems to be a way to becoming fully Spanish resident which I don't want. It also expects you to stay for more than 6 months.
As I understand, the post above about Europeans in the UK (being allowed 6 months and being able to start another 6 months a day later) is correct.
We should be allowed to do the same and not be tied to 90/180. Actually, I spend a lot less money in Spain now than I did before Brexit. I'm sure it is the same for other Brits with boats/second homes in the EU.
 
Hurricane said:
In Spain we have various visa options. The big one being the Non Lucrative Residenca which has a few stipulations (medical insurance, sum of money in the bank etc) but for me, the Residenca visa scheme seems to be a way to becoming fully Spanish resident which I don't want. It also expects you to stay for more than 6 months.
As I understand, the post above about Europeans in the UK (being allowed 6 months and being able to start another 6 months a day later) is correct.
We should be allowed to do the same and not be tied to 90/180. Actually, I spend a lot less money in Spain now than I did before Brexit. I'm sure it is the same for other Brits with boats/second homes in the EU.
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Mike, the big issues with the NLV is that it seems to require you to pay tax in Spain on your worldwide income.

Spain Non-Lucrative Visa - SchengenVisaInfo.com

Tax Implications for a Spanish Non-Lucrative Visa​

A non-lucrative visa requires you to stay more than six months in Spain to be able to renew it. So, you have to pay income tax on your worldwide income. Spain has double tax agreements with many countries that prevent you from paying twice for the same income if it was generated in another country. If you want to invest and then profit from those investments, then you have to pay capital gains tax.

That would be enough to put me off.

Incidentally, there's an excellent Facebook Group called "180 days in Spain" which is lobbying for Spain to allow Brits to stay longer than 90 days (i.e. have the same rights as Spaniards vising the UK).
 
Hurricane said:
) but for me, the Residenca visa scheme seems to be a way to becoming fully Spanish resident which I don't want. It also expects you to stay for more than 6 months.
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I think you dont have to become a Spanish national, you can continue with 5 year residence (NIE) renewal, but I think you are correct in restrictions regarding absence,I cant remember now but there are differences between the absence with the initial 5 yr "temporary " NIE and the 5yr permanent NIE. Also it is an accumulation of total absenteeism time over a year.
It might be worth mentioning that (I think) the year is Jan 1/Dec.31 not any 365. For example the 183 days auto tax resident clock runs jan/dec. So you could do a 360 day continuous each side of the year. I hope that makes sense.
 
petem said:
180 days in Spain" which is lobbying for Spain to allow Brits to stay longer than 90 days (i.e. have the same rights as Spaniards vising the UK).
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I think it will come,I mentioned in an earlier post that it's my belief that the Spanish will arrange this b but I dont know how this will work re Schengen restrictions.
Ist it possible that a direct travel between UK and Spain can somehow bypass the 90day schengen rules?
 
billskip said:
I think it will come,I mentioned in an earlier post that it's my belief that the Spanish will arrange this b but I dont know how this will work re Schengen restrictions.
Ist it possible that a direct travel between UK and Spain can somehow bypass the 90day schengen rules?
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spain can unilaterally allow brits to stay over 90 days in spain if they wanted to, but that wouldnt allow the same brit to stay in other eu countries for over 90 days. There would need to be a series of individual agreements between uk and each country , or an eu wide agreement between the eu and the uk.
 
billskip said:
I think it will come,I mentioned in an earlier post that it's my belief that the Spanish will arrange this b but I dont know how this will work re Schengen restrictions.
Ist it possible that a direct travel between UK and Spain can somehow bypass the 90day schengen rules?
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The 90 day rule is the EU default if no additional visa arrangements have been made.

Individual member states can create whatever visa schemes they like to allow people to stay longer.
 
julians said:
spain can unilaterally allow brits to stay over 90 days in spain if they wanted to, but that wouldnt allow the same brit to stay in other eu countries for over 90 days. There would need to be a series of individual agreements between uk and each country , or an eu wide agreement between the eu and the uk.
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That is why I said "direct" between UK and Spain...because if it was necessary to go via another country it would possible cause problems
 
julians said:
spain can unilaterally allow brits to stay over 90 days in spain if they wanted to, but that wouldnt allow the same brit to stay in other eu countries for over 90 days. There would need to be a series of individual agreements between uk and each country , or an eu wide agreement between the eu and the uk.
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Indeed, I think we're saying the same thing.

The depressing thing is that the UK govt seem to have very little interest in negotiating with either the EU or individual countries to create schemes that allow people to stay longer in the EU.
 
petem said:
The 90 day rule is the EU default if no additional visa arrangements have been made.

Individual member states can create whatever visa schemes they like to allow people to stay longer.
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It's my lack of understanding schengen rules. If a country is signed up to schengen dont they have to adhere to schengen rules ? I dont fully understand schengen I haven't looked into it.
 
billskip said:
It's my lack of understanding schengen rules. If a country is signed up to schengen dont they have to adhere to schengen rules ? I dont fully understand schengen I haven't looked into it.
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schengen is a default set of rules , an individual country in the eu can offer more generous (or less generous I think) terms if they want, but those more generous terms would only apply to the country offering them, not all the oher countries in the eu
 
petem said:
Indeed, I think we're saying the same thing.

The depressing thing is that the UK govt seem to have very little interest in negotiating with either the EU or individual countries to create schemes that allow people to stay longer in the EU.
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It's my belief that this is because the UK wish to control finances. The dont want their money going out of the country, also tha control of people claiming benefits is extremely difficult, for example people that claim all the energy allowance and winter fuel etc that jump on a flight and spend winter in a warm climate.
 
I was discussing the 90/180 issue with our Spanish marina manager. Apparently there is a lot of concern from the Spanish side of the argument. He also said that Spain goes to the polls later this month and it is expected that the government will move to the right. He believes this change will give support for our argument. I said that oue case had little impact to their tourism market. He disagreed with me, saying that there is huge support for a longer visa especially to allow Brits more time in Spain. He also works closely with 22 marinas up the Catalonia coast. He is far more upbeat than me!!
 
This seem to indicate the same here in the Canaries, but I think they will also have to be a little flexible with health insurance and financial requirements, I seem to remember €90 per day availability, if that's per person x2 x180..= lots
 
Hurricane said:
I was discussing the 90/180 issue with our Spanish marina manager. Apparently there is a lot of concern from the Spanish side of the argument. He also said that Spain goes to the polls later this month and it is expected that the government will move to the right. He believes this change will give support for our argument. I said that oue case had little impact to their tourism market. He disagreed with me, saying that there is huge support for a longer visa especially to allow Brits more time in Spain. He also works closely with 22 marinas up the Catalonia coast. He is far more upbeat than me!!
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Why would a move to the right be in favour of more generous terms for visitors to Spain?
 
petem said:
OK, lets go back to basics.

FOM gives EU citizens the right to stay in other EU states for as long as they like (>90 days require proof that they have sufficient means and health insurance).

UK citizens no longer have the right to stay in other EU states for as long as they like (unless they apply for a visa).

Anyone who visits an EU country for more than 90 days has to register themselves.

Dictionary meanings:

"right" - a moral or legal entitlement to have or do something
"registration" - the act of recording a name or information on an official list

Can we agree on the above?
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Yes Pete , great summary.
 
petem said:
Why would a move to the right be in favour of more generous terms for visitors to Spain?
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I'm only going on what our (SCM) manager said. I think his views are based on the right being more dynamic and understanding that we Brits bring money with us. As I said, he was more upbeat about it than I. That said, there is a lot of local Spanish support in Valencia and separately in Alicante.

I may be living in cloud cuckoo land but I agree with Billskip, I think it will happen someday.
 
Tranona said:
What makes you think that - and you have some sort of special understanding denied to others?

The issue is (as many of us keep trying to tell you) is that freedom of movement is a legal right and that the requirement for local registration is just a condition of exercising that right and is different from state to state. Failure to comply does not remove the basic right, but is a local "offence".

That is the right that UK citizens enjoyed pre Brexit along with the same conditions. We have now lost that right and it has been replaced by the Schengen rules which does say exactly what you can and cannot do when you visit the EU. The 90 days stay limit is unconnected with the Freedom of Movement 90 days and what happens after 90 days is completely different.

Neither of those sets of rules has anything to do with personal tax which is a state (not EU) competence and liability for tax varies from state to state as do the double taxation treaties between states
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Not sure how or why FoM got brought into the 90 officialdom meet on this thread .Or why Brexit and it’s implications for U.K. keep getting tossed about in posts I certainly never mixed FoM in my post s .The Op s talking current not historical.

All I have ever said is after 90 days in one EU state you have to tackle officialdom one way or another .Furthermore you should have tackled it pre brexit and a lot didn’t .

Others have brought other stuff in and I thought usefully btw .
 
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