daveg45
Member
NO NO....I like been tall Bill.
A depressing couple of days at the Southampton Boat show
- Thread starter daveg45
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daveg45
Member
well your last statement strongly suggests to me you haven't crossed an ocean on a sailing boat. Modern beamy flat bottomed performance boats seen at boat shows are in abundance mate.
Seastoke
Well-known member
What is up with you , I take it you sail alone .
daveg45
Member
ok I'll answer the question. I have one if these.May I ask what boat you have now & I hope you feel better having got that lot off your chest...
Dufour 425 GL: solid, spacious & ocean capable - Yachting Monthly
Ordered it at the 2007 Southampton boatshow and took deliver in March 2008. In fact Duncan Kent came and did a review of the boat and took it out sailing in Torquay so my boat appeared in a copy of 2008 yachting monthly. He was talking about the construction and hand laid hull and the attention to the keel area. I didn't really appreciate what he was telling me at the time but I sure do now. Glassed and bonded hull liner as opposed to now how they just glued in with bonder. Check out the Hanse boat on youtube that had a rebuilt after hitting rocks . The hull thickness at the keel area is 10mm. When I drilled a hole for the water maker next to the keel it was 30mm thick grp. Now they are vacuum moulded and probably not of the same quality as Contest. When I bought it I listened to a diatribe of negativity from many on this forum site telling me how shit new boats are. Almost all of it unfounded and parrotting what they have heard or read . It was my first boat. I sailed it for much of the first year in Devon singlehanded a lot of the time. Without an autopilot. It would hold its course long enough to put a reef in. Eventually fitted one and did a few crossings to then 2 years later headed of to La Coruna where i was once again on my own. I seen the summer cruising the spanish rais don't to lisbon singlehanded. A friend joined me for the trip to the Algarve where I wintered. Over the years as a long term live aboard ( although I do spend few month back in the UK each year to see my kids). I have sailed it extensively in the Aegean where the meltemi tought me to sail. Sailed up the coast to Durrers in Albania in southerly winds with sustained 55 knots using a staysail because Sarande was untenable. When we arrived there were yachts with smashed stanchions and toe rails because Durrers too was untenable
I have anchored in Venice during storm cell with 50 knot winds on the leading edge. I have sailed in Greece when old farts on old 'ocean going' boats are filling up the pontoon with ropes (I know, there are no ropes on a boat) trying not to bounce off the concrete. I have been in some extreme conditions. On the shoulder season parts of the med can only be described as violent.
So the Dufour 425 has not let me down. With new sails new rigging, water maker, 600w solar power, Inverter, lithium batteries induction hob she carried me, my partner and two crew across the atlantic. Ocean capable? sure. Would I make a few changes yes. But change t for an old contest , moody, HR ? Not a hope in hell
We all arrived in the caribbean feeling we had something left in the tank. My first atlantic experience was delivering a 2007 Beneteau 40 leaving Barcelona mid February and arriving Antiqua in April. Everyone wanted to get off. even the owner. It rolled like a pig. Watch Ryan and Sophies experience because it mirrored ours. When I asked him why he bought the benny if he was planning on sailing to New Zealand his answer was it was what I could afford. it was his second round trip to the caribbean with the boat and was an in for him with the charter industry. Captain 0f 60ft gunboats an the like. Defiantly capable and experienced. So would he get an old HR or something instead. His answer was he would get the longest boat he could afford. I will second that.
I wonder if Ducan Kent will describe the new Dufour 470 as ocean capable. I very much doubt it.
So there is my resume and my experience can sniff out the bullshit. There is no need to carry 800l of water. Its probably going to get tepid and have ecoli in it.. best make your own.
Look I didn't start this thread do start a 'my boat is better than your boat' thing. Fin and spade versus Skeg and semi long keel rubbish. Personally I wouldn't want to push all that through the water. Probably needs half a gale to get the thing going and when its just about windy enough to push it along you seem them tied up taking all the space in the harbours . Try to get into those greek harbours after an exhilaration broad reach in a F7 is pointless. Best find somehwrer to drop the hook.
ok rant over
billskip
Well-known member
But I see no mention of anchors........
daveg45
Member
I am just a bit saddened that the likes of Dufour have lost their way thats all. Probably because the are owned by bankers looking at the bottom line. But surely it can't cost that much more to make them a bit stronger. I have nothing agains old boats. Newew ones have a place of course and I like some of features on new boats. Not many women want to go sailing in a cave with a coffin berth
Well course I have anchors. Even have a bit of chain on the end. I am not going to say what it is though as we will turn the thread into yet another my anchor is better than your anchor. I have only ever felt the need to put one anchor down though. If the shit hits the fan I just want to lift and go and not get stressed by having two out. Besides I was referring to the build quality of boats.... Anyone can pop down to the chandlery and pic up a rocna or whatever takes their fancy Bill.
billskip
Well-known member
I do agree with you,the new boats are about what they can sell for best profit to sit on a pontoon with a g'n't.
Now I would be looking at a motorsailer OK they don't sail or motor very well but I think the Cheoy Lee 53,63 or even the 78
Are good sturdy boat that your woman will like.
When all this new stuff gets older they won't have the demand for a good price like the old Gibsea's and Dufour
Nom de plume
Well-known member
I think that most boat folks agree that all boats are a compromise.
The choice is therefore made not on which boats are 'In' but on eliminatinating those that are definitely 'out'.
I don't know why exactly, but for me, Dufours, especially Dufour 425 GL's, are most certainly 'out'.
The choice is therefore made not on which boats are 'In' but on eliminatinating those that are definitely 'out'.
I don't know why exactly, but for me, Dufours, especially Dufour 425 GL's, are most certainly 'out'.
westernman
Well-known member
I dont think the Beneteau Figaro 3 or the Beneteau First 27 SE are about sitting on the pontoon with a G&T or any other drink.
nortada
Well-known member
So for you what is in and why and what boat do you have?
geem
Well-known member
Autopilot is rotary drive on to shaft drive steering. Sailed 28,000nm since 2014. Just off on another Transat. Autopilot is very light on amps. The old Neco motor using Raymarine brain used about twice as much power. Current Raymarine motor is surprisingly efficient.
daveg45
Member
Not worth entering into dialogue nortada when someone makes a throwaway comment without substantiation it. I have at least tried to give some reasoning behind my comments.
nortada
Well-known member
But put the ball firmly in the right court so I look forward to a response.
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daveg45
Member
I have been thinking ?. Maybe the French yards have realised that blokes don't buy boats they just pay for them. And if the ladies head is turned by a fusion sound system (all be it entry level) draw fridge freezers and bbq's in the cockpit and a cooler for the wine and accommodation that resembles an apartment (which to be fair is probably what they really want) they are onto a winner. Also maybe they can see the change in sailing style. Gone are the days where you can retire on an index linked final salary with cash bonus with early retirement like all those Dutch people in their 2006 ish Bavaria’s. As people are looking at 67 years before retirement. Chances are they are never crossing oceans on boats. With limited holidays much better to stick a pin in the map of your next sailing destination and go and charter one. Stiff competition there. People want the best bling palace for their money. So why build a boat for a purpose it will never get used for? Those who will be able to retire early enough to take off will be well healed enough and have the mindset that a million pound boat with its £100k annual running costs is more than doable. Plenty of young coupe with young kids sailing the world probably on bank of mum and dad and their weapon of choice is a catamaran. I suspect a lot of those old traditional blue water boats will struggle to find a new owner in a few years. This could lead me to another thread. How much of person wealth should be spent on a toy. Weather you live on it or not? I’ll kick off with 10% so I could chop the Dufour in for something different and add another couple off hundred k but the cost benefit ratio just doesn’t seem to be there. I am aware of the limitations of the Dufour 425. But many have crossed the Atlantic and if you can do that then no reason it can’t handle the pacific.
daveg45
Member
Don’t forget there will be lots on here chucking out opinions like confetti at a wedding who are either sat at home bored with what their wife is watching on TV or similarly sat on their boat in El Miramar or somewhere similar with their eBay satellite dish screwed to the pontoon with their wife watching tv. Often you can tell who they are with the comments they make.
webcraft
Well-known member
A lot of opinionated nonsense in this thread...
billskip
Well-known member
I see you have added yours...
webcraft
Well-known member
????
I think we should have a 'Sailing on a Shoestring' forum for people whose boat cost less than other peoples' watermaker or deep freeze.
Any boat can cross an ocean if the crew are determined to do so.
- W
Graham376
Well-known member
Me cross an ocean on a boat? Not a chance of that, I find being offshore more than a couple of days boring and much like watching paint dry. After last Biscay crossing, much of which was on engine, decided to stay somewhere warmer rather than return uphill again into colder and lumpier seas and rain. These days, our boat has become a floating holiday home, we did more sailing on annual holiday cruises before being based here. Most beamy bottoms around here are on beaches, not boats
I like Webby's idea above, our first boat, a Centaur in which we happily bashed around the Irish Sea for a few years, sold a few years ago for less than someone here recently paid for his watermaker.
capnsensible
Well-known member
It was nice to be asked to by my captain. ?Like we are going to take advice from someone who sunk and refloated his own command countless times a day for a living....
