A collision situation, what does the panel think?

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Heckler

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left kilmore key heading for pwllheli,
took the inshore passage and the plan was to head for tusker rock, south rock buoy and then turn north just to the west of the inshore tz.
we had set out just after hi water kilmore key and had the tide up our chuff going like a steam train, 11 -12 knts over the ground.
as we approached tusker, lau said hey we are being swept on to the south rock, i started the engine and made adjustments and then we swept around and headed north east on a strt line for pwllheli.
we had one reef in the main and a couple of turns on the genny, engine ticking over just in case it was needed.
spotted a couple of "blocks of flats" heading towards us from rosslare in the distance on the port bow, we were on port tack about 1.5 miles north east of tusker and pretty certain we were outside any tzs.
we were still doing 12knts over the ground! the furthest north bof was passing slowly across our bow and i was sure it would pass ahead of us but to our horror the nearest one started to turn towards us.
it was obviously on his way to france or that direction. i kept an eye on it and it wasnt moving against one of my beam stays.
i couldnt speed up to go ahead of it and the tide was pushing us hard, i started to try and get the head more to the wind NW but i got to the point where although the genny was starting to fluff.
we were still trundling along with the tide, in the end i pushed the head more to wind (effectively pointing us to pass to port) and he passed ahead of us and we passed astern of him.
i tried the vhf a couple of times but no answer. did i do right? or should i have tried to stand on and trust him to turn to stbd and pass behind me and get closer to tusker?
 
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pretty certain we were outside any tzs.

[/ QUOTE ]OK, how certain were you?

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should i have tried to stand on and trust him to turn to stbd and pass behind me and get closer to tusker

[/ QUOTE ]Depends on how brave you are.
 
Sorry Stu, call me old fashioned but I find it much easier to read more, shorter sentences and paragraphs than one big one. Especially at this time of night when the eyelids are drooping.

Hence, no comment from me - I don't understand the question.
 
positive out side tz, have just checked on the chart again, not brave at all but the prob was that he wasnt giving out "good" signals
 
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Hence, no comment from me - I don't understand the question.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sounds like a Dragons' Den kind of answer - Just to be clear on this, and so you know where you stand....., I'm out!

P.S got your PM thanks, will let you know.
 
How far away was he? I tend to try and avoid collision situations with big ships by getting them to pass ahead... well before we are close enough for it to be an issue..... if you did what you did far enough away, fine... if you did it at relative close quarters, you risked him altering to port to avoid you, possibly creating another collision situation.

You can always slow down, or stop.
 
I find it very hard to picture this without a chart in front of me - probably I am just too thick.

But I would make two comments:


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i kept an eye on it and it wasnt moving against one of my beam stays.

[/ QUOTE ]

Stationary vs a part of your boat is a useful indiicator but I would always use a hand bearing compass to check what is really happening.

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i tried the vhf a couple of times but no answer

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This was not IMHO a time to be playing with the VHF! The chances of making a useful contact with a vessel you were sure was the right ship and making him sure of who you were and agreeing a useful course of action are vanishingly slim. You are more likely to cause delay and confusion. There are times when a VHF call is useful. This was not one of them IMO.
 
Sounds like you did the right thing. You took apprpriate action to avoid a possible collision and he probably saw you make that course change and breathed a sigh of relief. I think you did right to attempt vhf contact. I always do this and mostly they respond, sometimes they don't. When they do respond it quickly resolves any problem so I think it's worth the try.
 
When you read the CHIRP reports on near misses they often say that VHF is no way to resolve the issue. There is often doubt about who is talking to who and language can be an issue. Colregs were designed to make speaking unnecessary. I think that you did the right thing - at the end of the day it is your responsibility to avoid a collision regardless of circumstances.
 
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I think you did right to attempt vhf contact.........When they do respond it quickly resolves any problem so I think it's worth the try.

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I rather strongly disagree, there are a number of examples of VHF-mediated collisions. You must have heard the plaintive calls from gas field guard ships going unanswered for hours on end, or worse being answered by someone else. The last thing a ship wants is some yotty bleating at him when he thinking and worrying over a much bigger range than the yotty is aware of.

There are exceptions. Notably when under control of a port radio who tells you exactly what is where. Then it is common for a vessel to contact a *known* *named* vessel to confirm arrangements for passing.

But in general, I think it is safer to just apply the colregs and behave predictably. However, I know there is disagreement over this. I would be interested to hear from the real professionals - sbc??
 
I agree; vhf contact is a bonus, not a substitute for proper adherence to colregs. I often talk to ships - usually the discussion is very brief, just confirmation that "I have you visual", very comforting; at other times they can be quite chatty.
 
I tend to agree. Have found it useful in port situations (eg entering Tampa Bay for first time at night) and in poor visibility.

It is very helpful in thick fog when large ships give their speed and course and more usefully the minimum depth of water they require. It makes it very easy for small craft to stay out of their way.
Think it might cause confusion in congested situations like the channel shipping lanes or the Solent though unless you know the identity of the vessel you wish to call.
Will AIS receivers help in this?
 
I wonder why you think adhering to colregs and making vhf contact are mutually exclusive?
My perception of the activity on the bridge of a ship is of professional calm, an unflustered team going about their business; I don't see a harassed, nervous captain with sweaty brow flustered by wittering yotties! At least that's not how it seems when I talk to them.
 
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I think you should ,at least,have had the Vhf on channel 16.

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Absolutely agree. And in fog having stuff broadcast its position and intentions is incredibly useful. But that is not the same as struggling to establish direct communications.

Yes, AIS will I think change this.
 
"i tried the vhf a couple of times but no answer. did i do right? or should i have tried to stand on and trust him to turn to stbd and pass behind me and get closer to tusker?"
You turned to starboard - exactly the correct action to take.
Your thoughts quoted are exactly the thoughts of the captain of the Andrea Doria - he took the wrong decision and turned to port and had to live with the consequent loss of life for the rest of his days.
If in doubt NEVER turn to port.
 
Well said. I think he did the best he could in that situation other than going tits up - bet his tiller arm ached.
 
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I wonder why you think adhering to colregs and making vhf contact are mutually exclusive?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't. And I didn't say that I did. I do think that in a closing situation when you are concerned about what to do next, the idea that the VHF can save the day is potentially dangerous. In fact, in reality, I believe that it wil usually cause additional delay and confusion.

There are exceptions to this. I have called-up ships in open water to discuss the situation but very rarely and only when there is no urgency but there is an oportunity to smooth the situation.
 
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