A chat with e-borders at the boat show
- Thread starter MoodySabre
- Start date
MoodySabre
Well-Known Member
Speak to them - they should know we don't like restrictions however inocuous. Gordon Brown would however tell us that it is the interest of national security and the freedom from terrorists. All 15 years too late if you ask me.
haydude
Well-Known Member
Without being elderly, I do not have and neither I do want a mobile phone, I was one of the first to have one, had mobiles for years and now I just hate them. When it comes to the internet, I have it only at home and at work, certainly not on the boat and neither I would want it only to comply with legislation. If that is compulsory whilst on board, they should pay for my access.
TheBoatman
Well-Known Member
I'm Fecked
I don't own a laptop and I'm vertually computor illerate, so having changed my passage plan and find myself in a foreign port reporting my change of plan is going to pose a problem especially as I was delivering the boat for the owner and intend to leave it and come home on a ferry?
This could get interesting ~ will I end up in clink at the behest of an over enthusiastic civil servant who is "just doing his job and obeying the rules"?
I have made the following observations during my lifetime!
1. Most new government rules (laws) never solve the problem that they originally set out to solve.
2. Given new laws yer average civil servant in a uniform and peaked cap will undoubtably abuse the authority given to him/her.
3. I will always be in the wrong and,
4. Will end up paying some kinda fine and run the risk of having a "criminal" record to boot.
Am I wrong in my assumptions?
Peter.
I don't own a laptop and I'm vertually computor illerate, so having changed my passage plan and find myself in a foreign port reporting my change of plan is going to pose a problem especially as I was delivering the boat for the owner and intend to leave it and come home on a ferry?
This could get interesting ~ will I end up in clink at the behest of an over enthusiastic civil servant who is "just doing his job and obeying the rules"?
I have made the following observations during my lifetime!
1. Most new government rules (laws) never solve the problem that they originally set out to solve.
2. Given new laws yer average civil servant in a uniform and peaked cap will undoubtably abuse the authority given to him/her.
3. I will always be in the wrong and,
4. Will end up paying some kinda fine and run the risk of having a "criminal" record to boot.
Am I wrong in my assumptions?
Peter.
T
timbartlett
Guest
You are probably being overcautious in saying "most"
They won't necessarily be wearing a uniform and cap. The most dangerous ones wear suits
Of course. Have you not realised that your sole purpose in life is to pay their salaries and pensions, and that you do that partly by taxation and partly by being penalised for being wrong. (You don't have to actually be wrong in order to be penalised)
Of course. That is the purpose of the legislation. What would be the point of legislation if people didn't have to pay penalties?
No
nimbusgb
Well-Known Member
Anyone who is uncertain about how 'sensibly' e-Borders prosecutions will be applied only has to consider the cars that were towed away from where they were abandonded in deep snow to the Isle of Sheppey. No public transport running to the facility, inaccesible by taxi and the owners touched up for a £150 pound fine and £20 per day fee.
This government is out of control. The really, really bad news is that the next one will be no better I think.
Did anyone else hear the chap on the radio the other morning. German, thick accent, saying something along the lines of ' The trouble with England is that they apply the letter of the law so firmly. In Germany and other places on the continent we are sensible about how we use the laws to guide us'
So true!
This government is out of control. The really, really bad news is that the next one will be no better I think.
Did anyone else hear the chap on the radio the other morning. German, thick accent, saying something along the lines of ' The trouble with England is that they apply the letter of the law so firmly. In Germany and other places on the continent we are sensible about how we use the laws to guide us'
So true!
T
timbartlett
Guest
It doesn't matter which bunch of politicians are in place as the figureheads.
They are merely puppets.
It is the puppetmasters that we have to get rid of.
sailorman
Well-Known Member
Don't worry, you can tell by the speed of cars on the motorway that it's optional.
Thats as may be. BUT the plod has the power to prosecute those speeding @ their discretion similar to as promised in the ukba proposals
Boreades
Well-Known Member
There's a speed limit in the UK?
Don't worry, you can tell by the speed of cars on the motorway that it's optional.
Boreades
Well-Known Member
Oh dear! If we start talking about the puppetmasters, we'll be heading deep into the Conspiracy Twylight Zones
Twister_Ken
Well-Known Member
"This government is out of control. The really, really bad news is that the next one will be no better I think."
To quote Ken Livingstone.
"If voting changed anything, they'd ban it."
To quote Pete Townsend
"Meet the new boss. He's the same as the old boss."
To quote Ken Livingstone.
"If voting changed anything, they'd ban it."
To quote Pete Townsend
"Meet the new boss. He's the same as the old boss."
T
timbartlett
Guest
Hardly! We're talking routine, everyday, reality.Oh dear! If we start talking about the puppetmasters, we'll be heading deep into the Conspiracy Twylight Zones
On average, a new law gets added to our statute books every three quarters of an hour, every working day of every working week, with neither parliamentary discussion nor royal assent. Where do you think they all come from? (Clue: it's not the EC)
Twister_Ken
Well-Known Member
There is a new law which makes it an offence to cause a nuclear explosion.
(1) Any person who knowingly causes a nuclear weapon test explosion or any other nuclear explosion is guilty of an offence and liable on conviction on indictment to imprisonment for life.
(2) Nothing in subsection (1) shall apply to a nuclear weapon explosion carried out in the course of an armed conflict.
(3) If in proceedings for an offence under this section any question arises as to whether a nuclear weapon explosion was or was not carried out in the course of an armed conflict, that question shall be determined by the Secretary of State; and a certificate purporting to set out any such determination and to be signed by the Secretary of State shall be received in evidence and be deemed to be so signed without further proof, unless the contrary is shown.
I like this one:
Polish Potatoes (Notification) (England) Order 2004
No person shall, in the course of business, import into England potatoes which he knows to be or has reasonable cause to suspect to be Polish potatoes.
And:
Merchant Shipping (Miscellaneous Amendments) Regulations 2002
If any officer appointed in accordance with regulation 30(1) reports to the master or other officer in charge of the bridge a door to be closed and locked when it is not in fact closed and locked he shall be guilty of an offence.
(1) Any person who knowingly causes a nuclear weapon test explosion or any other nuclear explosion is guilty of an offence and liable on conviction on indictment to imprisonment for life.
(2) Nothing in subsection (1) shall apply to a nuclear weapon explosion carried out in the course of an armed conflict.
(3) If in proceedings for an offence under this section any question arises as to whether a nuclear weapon explosion was or was not carried out in the course of an armed conflict, that question shall be determined by the Secretary of State; and a certificate purporting to set out any such determination and to be signed by the Secretary of State shall be received in evidence and be deemed to be so signed without further proof, unless the contrary is shown.
I like this one:
Polish Potatoes (Notification) (England) Order 2004
No person shall, in the course of business, import into England potatoes which he knows to be or has reasonable cause to suspect to be Polish potatoes.
And:
Merchant Shipping (Miscellaneous Amendments) Regulations 2002
If any officer appointed in accordance with regulation 30(1) reports to the master or other officer in charge of the bridge a door to be closed and locked when it is not in fact closed and locked he shall be guilty of an offence.
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Major Catastrophe
Well-Known Member
Larry Grayson would never have seen the light of day, if that had been law when he was alive.
Seagreen
Well-Known Member
Taking one step back from all of this, how did Serco get the contract?
Does anyone in the Defence world remember DERA and the F.I.S.T. (Future Infantry Soldier Technology) project? I remember a great TV expose 20 years ago (panorama) where a junior minister expounded confidently about how great this (then simulated) system would be for the soldier, integrating microwave TV, radio comms, gps, etc., into an integrated battlefield system. They also interviewed the chief designer, a slightly mad bloke who admitted he'd been inspired by the kit they had in the ALIENS movie, and wondered if they could do the same.... Not surprisngly, it couldn't and didn't work, and the project was scrapped.
Now it seems that the entire Eborders thing is another example of the same, a theoretically wonderful (if you're a Security wonk) way of seiving out the nasty guys from the rest, and all sounds great and easy on paper. I think that Serco took the theory to a junior minister in need of a Headline project, and oversold their capacity to deliver whilst not actually having a clue about the real parameters of the "problem". Having seen some government departments working from the inside, is it any wonder that this project is in the mess that it is?
And further, shouldn't the Daily Wail or someone jump all over this as a way of exposing yet more government waste and stupidity? Surely that would focus the ministerial "mind"..
Does anyone in the Defence world remember DERA and the F.I.S.T. (Future Infantry Soldier Technology) project? I remember a great TV expose 20 years ago (panorama) where a junior minister expounded confidently about how great this (then simulated) system would be for the soldier, integrating microwave TV, radio comms, gps, etc., into an integrated battlefield system. They also interviewed the chief designer, a slightly mad bloke who admitted he'd been inspired by the kit they had in the ALIENS movie, and wondered if they could do the same.... Not surprisngly, it couldn't and didn't work, and the project was scrapped.
Now it seems that the entire Eborders thing is another example of the same, a theoretically wonderful (if you're a Security wonk) way of seiving out the nasty guys from the rest, and all sounds great and easy on paper. I think that Serco took the theory to a junior minister in need of a Headline project, and oversold their capacity to deliver whilst not actually having a clue about the real parameters of the "problem". Having seen some government departments working from the inside, is it any wonder that this project is in the mess that it is?
And further, shouldn't the Daily Wail or someone jump all over this as a way of exposing yet more government waste and stupidity? Surely that would focus the ministerial "mind"..
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rallyveteran
Well-Known Member
Searush
Well-Known Member
Don't knock that one, that will be a follow on from the "Herald of Free Enterprise" (IIRC) where the bow doors were not shut, but the Master thought they were. It filled, rolled over & sank with many dying. It places a clear responsibility on the assigned crew member to check & confirm the bow doors are shut & locked & report correctly to the bridge. I have NO COMPLAINTS about that whatsoever.
On the Polish potatoes ban, I trust that has been repealed as we should not be able to outlaw produce from another member of the EU, that is the whole point of a Free Trade Area.
Major Catastrophe
Well-Known Member
I expect they had some blight, or something. We were stopped exporting to the EU because of foot & mouth etc.
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Twister_Ken
Well-Known Member
"a follow on from the "Herald of Free Enterprise" "
A bit late in that case. And there will plenty of other legislation that can be called into play in events like that as, indeed, there will be for causing a nuclear explosion.
Now, has any officer appointed in accordance with regulation 30(1) been prosecuted under that clause in the last eight years?
A bit late in that case. And there will plenty of other legislation that can be called into play in events like that as, indeed, there will be for causing a nuclear explosion.
Now, has any officer appointed in accordance with regulation 30(1) been prosecuted under that clause in the last eight years?
T
timbartlett
Guest
Sounds distinctly feasible. Especially as the Herald of Free Enterprise capsize was in 1987 -- which means it took them fifteen years to get round to it!
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