a 10m boat suitable for single handed inshore racing?

[Birdseye]

Am getting frustrated with my new to me boat because the "margin of control" whilst single handed is so tight that any surprise event ( a sheet snagging for example) usually results in the boat rounding up / tacking etc. I'm talking short courses with just 10 mins or so between marks and I am not as quick reacting as I was 30 years ago.

There are lots of positives about the current boat but I cannot see a way of making club racing in it more practical so I am wondering about selling. Can anyone suggest a suitable boat for this sort of use, preferably with the ability to take to the ground occasionally.. Say 20 years old.

 

[Tranona]

Can't think of anything that will take the ground except what you currently have or maybe the lifting keel Jeanneaus of that size.. When I was looking for a new 10m boat in 2014/5 at a sensible price inevitably the short list was from the 4 major builders. Key requirement was "old man" single handed. I chose the Bavaria as it scored best on most factors and was far and away the best for single handing with the extra pair of winches. Although the mainsheet was in front of the wheel it had no traveller, but I had in mast and never felt constrained in cruising performance. Tacked like a dinghy and directionally very stable. Garmin push button autopilot. While I never raced I would imagine a normal slab reef with decent sails and the deep keel (I had the 1.5m shallow keel) it would be quite potent at club level. I also had a cruising chute on a Selden furler which was easy to use on my own.

Second on my list was one of these
ancasta.com/boats-for-sale/used/sail/hanse/325/39899/
but lost out mainly because it was just going out of production and the deal was not as good as I got with Bavaria. However it is probably a sharper performer than the Bavaria but for me the interior was a bit cramped (I am a big bloke), finish not quite so good and the cockpit not so user friendly because of the large wheel which restricted movement forward. Did not sail it so can't comment on handling, but they have a good reputation for sharp performance.

Bit older, but here in Poole the Elan 333 is the boat of choice for club racing in this size range.

Happy hunting!

 

[Ingwe]

I doubt what you want exists due to the drying out requirement. But ignoring that I would think about one of the older 30ft Hanse's due to the self tacking jib - yes it won't set quite as well but as you are finding you mucking up a few tacks is going to cost you far more.

 

[B27]

Maybe the starting point for selecting a boat for racing should be a long hard look at the boats it will race against?
Also the courses, conditions etc and what you want from the racing.

Do you want to win on handicap?
Do you want a boat you like which will give you fun on the water but not necessarily great results on paper?

Might 'taking the ground' include leaning a boat against a wall? Or using legs?

 

[flaming]

Am getting frustrated with my new to me boat because the "margin of control" whilst single handed is so tight that any surprise event ( a sheet snagging for example) usually results in the boat rounding up / tacking etc. I'm talking short courses with just 10 mins or so between marks and I am not as quick reacting as I was 30 years ago.

There are lots of positives about the current boat but I cannot see a way of making club racing in it more practical so I am wondering about selling. Can anyone suggest a suitable boat for this sort of use, preferably with the ability to take to the ground occasionally.. Say 20 years old.

Could you not just recruit someone else to sail with you? Or is this an exclusively singlehanded series?

 

[Chiara’s slave]

This isn't an uncommon requirement. The boat you seek is obvious to me, though handicap racing might not be appealing. And actually it’s only 9.2m. But it fits your criteria. Fast, easy to singlehand, being entirely cockpit led, takes the ground on a mooring or for picnicing, Sails off 1.235 NHC, fast 40 territory. I’m only slightly serious, cos it isn’t the answer you want. It actually could be though.

 

[Birdseye]

Maybe the starting point for selecting a boat for racing should be a long hard look at the boats it will race against?
Also the courses, conditions etc and what you want from the racing.

Do you want to win on handicap?
Do you want a boat you like which will give you fun on the water but not necessarily great results on paper?

Might 'taking the ground' include leaning a boat against a wall? Or using legs?

It is handicap ( NHC) racing against a real bag of oldies such as Trapper 300, some modern, some bilge, some fin. So not serious racing Flaming style - just "fun on the water but not necessarily great results on paper".

Could you not just recruit someone else to sail with you? Or is this an exclusively singlehanded series?

Single handed means no messing about arranging crew etc. Its just easier, though having said that the next series starting September will be crewed.

I like single handing.

 

[Birdseye]

This isn't an uncommon requirement. The boat you seek is obvious to me, though handicap racing might not be appealing. And actually it’s only 9.2m. But it fits your criteria. Fast, easy to singlehand, being entirely cockpit led, takes the ground on a mooring or for picnicing, Sails off 1.235 NHC, fast 40 territory. I’m only slightly serious, cos it isn’t the answer you want. It actually could be though.

Had considered a tri after once sailing a Farrier of about 30ft. But its bad enough having bilge keels and fast fins in the same fleet without adding something totally different. Mkes racing pointless
Is yours a dragonfly?

 

[dunedin]

Not sure there is any easy answer to solving what was reported as your issues in the other thread - not holding course “no hands” after a tack etc (other than a better / newer autopilot perhaps, which might be cheaper than a new boat).

Unless look for something that has one or both of
(a) small blade jib - possibly self tacker, though then slow downwind
(b) ability to fit a permanently connected autopilot ram

 

[B27]

30ft is quite a lot of boat for one person 'inshore' if that means racing short legs where turning the corners matter a lot.
I'm sure the autopilt can be made to work better by spending proper money, but if you're racing against boats with crew, then the marks are a problem if there's a spinnaker involved.
If you're alone and relying on an autopilot, how does that work at close quarters with the racing rules?

For racing, I bought a Laser. I'm an arch-super-great-grandmaster or something.
One of the guys I race the Laser against also does SH passage racing, but that makes more sense as there's a lot less mark roundings and everyone in the fleet is playing the same game.

Years ago, I did a lot of dayboat racing. There were 3 of us, if one couldn't make it, the other two could still race effectively.
I've raced small cruiser-racers a bit, but when you don't have the porkers on the rail, you won't win.
Same as I don't really rate racing trapeze dinghies against others, or two sail boats against kite boats, or asy boats against anything else.

 

[Daydream believer]

You need a self tacking jib. You can fit barber haulers for down wind legs , which you suggest are not long. I have fitted 2 extra winches at the aft end of the cockpit for these. If you can find one then a Hanse 301 with lift keel would be a good bet. The 30 ft Hanse was one of the better ones for performance in its day. If you can afford to go up a size, then a tiller steered 31series would be good. Look for one made between 2002 & 2007. But tiller steered is best for SH sailing. Mainsheet control & traveller etc. More room in the cockpit. Lead the jib sheet back to the genoa winch so it is in easy reach of the helm.. But you need good sails & take time to tune it up, Mast rake rig etc.

With short race legs you will not have time to hoist an asymetric chute. I have been told that a furling code zero transforms the boat. So look for one with a stub length bowsprit if possible
A few were made lifting keel, but chances of getting one is low. Shallow keel reduces performance a lot.

 

[Daydream believer]

Had considered a tri after once sailing a Farrier of about 30ft. But its bad enough having bilge keels and fast fins in the same fleet without adding something totally different. Mkes racing pointless
Is yours a dragonfly?

Multi hull sailing in a short course mixed fleet is a waste of time. At least that is what we find in the Hurrican & Nacra fleets. I assume racing a tri (albeit much longer legs) would not be so much different. Tacking is too slow to make advantage of windshifts. Hence one ends up doing longer tacks. Difficult to manouver in a short line which is busy with lots of mono hulls that can run rings round one pre start.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Multi hull sailing in a short course mixed fleet is a waste of time. At least that is what we find in the Hurrican & Nacra fleets. I assume racing a tri (albeit much longer legs) would not be so much different. Tacking is too slow to make advantage of windshifts. Hence one ends up doing longer tacks. Difficult to manouver in a short line which is busy with lots of mono hulls that can run rings round one pre start.

I know you’re not a fan. But Dragonflys tack fine, better than beach cats, speaking as an ex 5.9 sailor. The start line can be problematic, we usually start from hove to on stbd, if it’s an upwind start. If it’s reaching, we’ll go close hauled from the course side into any hole we see. Club cruiser races, that works well. Downwind, back to the hove to. You couldn’t do it with more than say a dozen monos coming to the line. We’ll just settle for last place if it’s too crowded on a downwind start, cross behind the fleet for clear air. I’ll agree the frequent pre start antics can make life difficult, the hove to stunt is the only practical approach.

 

[mrming]

If you can find one then a Hanse 301 with lift keel would be a good bet. The 30 ft Hanse was one of the better ones for performance in its day.

Agreed. That Hanse 291/301 is a good performer and rates well.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Agreed. That Hanse 291/301 is a good performer and rates well.

A good choice if it’s fitting in with the fleet that's also on the list of requirements. They are among the better performers of their type, and should be ok single handed.

 

[Birdseye]

I know you’re not a fan. But Dragonflys tack fine, better than beach cats, speaking as an ex 5.9 sailor. The start line can be problematic, we usually start from hove to on stbd, if it’s an upwind start. If it’s reaching, we’ll go close hauled from the course side into any hole we see. Club cruiser races, that works well. Downwind, back to the hove to. You couldn’t do it with more than say a dozen monos coming to the line. We’ll just settle for last place if it’s too crowded on a downwind start, cross behind the fleet for clear air. I’ll agree the frequent pre start antics can make life difficult, the hove to stunt is the only practical approach.

Having accidentally hove to at the last race start, I am wondering if its a good tactic for me. One of the issues single handed in a confined space is keeping the boat sailing at the same time as watching all the other boats milling about pre start. I'll give it a try next week.

Thanks to everyone for the suggestions. I will persevere for the moment if for no other reason than the pain cost and aggro involved in a boat change and then the subsequent making it fit for use. The next series will be crewed anyway though bearing in mind what has been said above, maybe I have it wrong way round trying to single hand in short leg round the cans and crewing up for long leg round the channel markers.

 

[Praxinoscope]

Not quite 10m and a bit older than 20 yrs, but the Sadler 29's in our harbour have a good record against the Fulmars etc.
Bilge keels so can take the ground and possible to sail single handed.

 

[Lightwave395]

A touch over 10M - Dehler 35CWS except for the 'take the ground' bit'. Raced and cruised mine solo, double handed and occasionally with a small crew, a cracking little boat - if you can find one...

 

[B27]

Having accidentally hove to at the last race start, I am wondering if its a good tactic for me. One of the issues single handed in a confined space is keeping the boat sailing at the same time as watching all the other boats milling about pre start. I'll give it a try next week.

Thanks to everyone for the suggestions. I will persevere for the moment if for no other reason than the pain cost and aggro involved in a boat change and then the subsequent making it fit for use. The next series will be crewed anyway though bearing in mind what has been said above, maybe I have it wrong way round trying to single hand in short leg round the cans and crewing up for long leg round the channel markers.

Heaving to at the start line?
You're still windward boat and required to keep clear of anyone overlapped below you surely?

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Work out your angle and rate of drift, position yourself accordingly. Being hove to doesn’t leave you helpless, you just go slower. You can always drop the jib over anyway. We position ourselves according to where we want to start a distance behind the line. Kind of drift along the line on starboard. Anyone else up there is going to be OCS at the gun if they’re not doing the same. Chiara does hove to to VMax in about 25 metres, and 10 seconds. Clearly in a lead mine of any cruisy disposition it takes a bit longer. Occasionally we have to uproot ourselves and go around again, in which case we might end up 10 seconds late. Mostly not though.