3D printers for marine, specifically sailing, actual applications.

[Neeves]

There have been a number of threads on the more recent innovations, Low Friction Rings, Soft shackles, 3D printing, Lithium batteries and - I cannot think of any more

I recall threads on 3D printing and I wondered how many here who have a 3D printer have actually found a use for them, or one, in applications directly applicable to sailing.

So what have you used your 3D printer for or what would you like made using a 3D printer.


This is purely academic - I was mulling over recent developments, innovations and I simply wondered if 3D printing had made a mark in 'sailing'. I am not to invest in one.

Jonathan

 

[AntarcticPilot]

I have one; in fact two! But I have not found a sailing use for them. I think a drawback is that the nature of the process means that the products tend to have a very strong "grain", and are weak in the direction perpendicular to the print-bed. Also, the commonest PLA filaments are slightly hygroscopic and not necessarily dimensionally stable in the presence of water. I can see them being useful to produce things like instrument covers, enclosures or things like mug stands, but perhaps not for anything requiring significant strength.

My last project was producing glow-in-the-dark dinosaur skulls for my grandson!

 

[Refueler]

I posted quite some time ago about 3D printers and parts we can make ...

I started with Sail protector rings to sit on cap shrouds where they meet spreaders ...

I printed trim surrounds for cabin lockers of a pals boat ...

Cup holders .. phone holders ... sun screens for displays .... the list is huge of print files online that can be downloaded - most free.

Filaments - you can have UV resistant .. heat resistant .. weather resistant ... flexible ... rigid ... super LW or heavy ... its evolving continuously. We are even flying / boating / driving 3D printed models now ....

 

[Refueler]

One of the factors to consider ... life expectancy of the printed item.

Its near free - OK - you pay for filament / electricity / machine etc. But the cost and ease of replacing items that live out their life is an advantage.

Sail protectors I use ... 1 - 2 seasons use ... when mast is down in winter - remove old ... print new ready for spring time ...

Need a sun screen for that display ? Fine - choose from many on line - some are designed for specific screens ... others you can scale / modify as needed.
Breaks ? Print another.

Ap mentions 'grain' ... actually the weakest is along the layer adhesion ...... if care is not taken in setting layer height / temp / extrusion width and rate to suit the design - the layers can be pulled apart. But once a few small test pieces are made to sort ... things like this are possible :

Yes that is designed for water use ...

or ..

yes it does fly with 4 motors independently controlled

fancy a Vulcan ?

Yes they all fly ....

 

[AntarcticPilot]

I posted quite some time ago about 3D printers and parts we can make ...

I started with Sail protector rings to sit on cap shrouds where they meet spreaders ...

I printed trim surrounds for cabin lockers of a pals boat ...

Cup holders .. phone holders ... sun screens for displays .... the list is huge of print files online that can be downloaded - most free.

Filaments - you can have UV resistant .. heat resistant .. weather resistant ... flexible ... rigid ... super LW or heavy ... its evolving continuously. We are even flying / boating / driving 3D printed models now ....

Combining our two responses, I think the answer is that it depends! Obviously, you have a more capable system than I do - or more skill, which is not unlikely! I have two printers - one is a CReality CR100, which is essentially a toy, with no capacity to vary things like nozzle temperature. It is pretty much restricted to PLA filament and has a tiny bed area. The other is a Snapmaker 2, and I have never used its 3D printing capability; I have mainly used its CNC milling capability. That may well be able to handle a wider range of filaments, but I haven't yet tried it as a 3D printer (see https://forums.ybw.com/index.php?threads/odd-request.562163/)

 

[Refueler]

Combining our two responses, I think the answer is that it depends! Obviously, you have a more capable system than I do - or more skill, which is not unlikely! I have two printers - one is a CReality CR100, which is essentially a toy, with no capacity to vary things like nozzle temperature. It is pretty much restricted to PLA filament and has a tiny bed area. The other is a Snapmaker 2, and I have never used its 3D printing capability; I have mainly used its CNC milling capability. That may well be able to handle a wider range of filaments, but I haven't yet tried it as a 3D printer (see https://forums.ybw.com/index.php?threads/odd-request.562163/)

I have two ...

Ender 3 Pro

Print-Rite Direct Feed machine.

Both have 220 x 220 x 280 work space ...

I'm no expert - far from it ... but allied to my Laser Cutter - makes a very good setup.

 

[Ian_Rob]

I'm no expert - far from it ... but allied to my Laser Cutter - makes a very good setup.

May I ask what laser cutter you have and the power/thickness capacity of the laser?

 

[Refueler]

May I ask what laser cutter you have and the power/thickness capacity of the laser?

Standard Chinese K40 ..... water cooled with air assist and red light targeting.

Single pass cut is limited to thin materials ... but anything like 4mm ply requires multiple pass cuts.

Capacity ? Its only an X Y axis machine - it does not have Z axis. Work area is approx 30 x 20 cms - I removed the sprung work holder as that reduced working area to about 20 x 15cm.

I am planning on acquiring a larger machine with up to 100 x 75cm work area ....

Am I happy with it ? You bet I am ... as a modeller - I can build / repair accurately now with repeat precision.

A trick ... lets say I smash a model. I piece together enough to have model back in shape ... I then scan the missing / bad sections to JPG with a standard flat-top scanner. (I do have a 3D scanner ... but that's a different ball game). The JPG is then loaded into Laser program ... vector traced and then JPG hidden.
Laser then cuts the trace part. New part fits model ...

 

[LiftyK]

3D prints used on my boat so far:

Replacement for broken swivel bracket on my fender baskets
Sail gate when new design was needed to accommodate batten cars
Surround for timed air freshener in the toiled, to stop it rolling as the freshener is round
Pattresses for LED light fittings
Collar to stop CV470 gas regulator turning on when something is rested on top of the regulator during transportation
Reels to hold small cords
Spanner holder, for around ten spanners
Collar to raise new manual cold water pump to fit around sink
A securing bar to allow wall mounting of several Wago-like connectors
Car radio brackets to secure car radio to my instrument and switch panel

 

[Refueler]

3D prints used on my boat so far:

Replacement for broken swivel bracket on my fender baskets
Sail gate when new design was needed to accommodate batten cars
Surround for timed air freshener in the toiled, to stop it rolling as the freshener is round
Pattresses for LED light fittings
Collar to stop CV470 gas regulator turning on when something is rested on top of the regulator during transportation
Reels to hold small cords
Spanner holder, for around ten spanners
Collar to raise new manual cold water pump to fit around sink
A securing bar to allow wall mounting of several Wago-like connectors
Car radio brackets to secure car radio to my instrument and switch panel

Try these :

Sail Chafe Protector by ozankaraca

Sail chafe protector by Kamil_Jarek

Sail wheels by alf_canet

This one I really like ..

Sail protection wheel by whatsacc

then we have ...

Hang-on Cup Holder by straitjacket

 

[Neeves]

It seems that unless there is a sudden flurry of replies then 3D printing is not really accepted by practical boat owners. From the previous threads most are interested in the concept but applications are not appreciated or not accepted. I had thought there might be owners of the technology, owning a 3D printer, who had developed new and novel applications - as has been done with LFRs and soft shackles.

I am not denying the usefulness of making new sun covers for instruments nor cup holders and brackets to tidy up wiring - but no-one is shouting out that they have opened up a new avenue of development as might have occurred with LFRs or soft shackles. LFRs and soft shackles are very simple, no disrespect intended, and they have established themselves as whole new manufacturing segments of the marine industry (every chandler sells them). I had thought 3D printing would evolve into an industry making replacement parts (as a primary income stream) and developing new applications.

Maybe its too new or ........ my expectations were too high.

Jonathan

 

[AntarcticPilot]

It seems that unless there is a sudden flurry of replies then 3D printing is not really accepted by practical boat owners. From the previous threads most are interested in the concept but applications are not appreciated or not accepted. I had thought there might be owners of the technology, owning a 3D printer, who had developed new and novel applications - as has been done with LFRs and soft shackles.

I am not denying the usefulness of making new sun covers for instruments nor cup holders and brackets to tidy up wiring - but no-one is shouting out that they have opened up a new avenue of development as might have occurred with LFRs or soft shackles. LFRs and soft shackles are very simple, no disrespect intended, and they have established themselves as whole new manufacturing segments of the marine industry (every chandler sells them). I had thought 3D printing would evolve into an industry making replacement parts (as a primary income stream) and developing new applications.

Maybe its too new or ........ my expectations were too high.

Jonathan

There's an issue that 3D printing is slow! Even quite small prints can take many hours, and if you use a solid fill for strength, it takes even longer. I have used it for practical things around the house - for example, an adapter to allow a vacuum cleaner to fit to the extraction hose of a table saw - and more so to produce small toys for my dinosaur-obsessed grandson. And I mentioned reasons why I'd be reluctant to use 3D printing for anything requiring strength or dimensional accuracy or stability. Accuracy is achievable but may require test pieces to be run, taking yet more time.

Perhaps another issue is that designing arbitrary objects is non-trivial. Not particularly difficult if you're used to using drawing packages or programming languages, but time-consuming and fiddly! There are libraries of ready-to-print designs (e.g.Thingiverse) , but even adapting an existing design can be quite tricky unless the original designer deliberately took steps to make it easy (e.g. using parameters for critical dimensions)

 

[Neeves]

I have noted the opportunity offered by Low Friction Rings - and might also consider that the opportunities are hampered by their cost. For what they are - they are extortionate.

Some primary suppliers are having their LFRs made in China. Coincidentally I wanted some prototypes made professionally of my bridle plate for a catamaran bridle (taking my self made product and making them look a bit more professional). I found a number of companies in China who would make prototypes at a reasonable cost, peanuts, and I commissioned them to make items for me. One of the companies also make LFRs for a major player in the market place and I bought 2 sets for, even less, peanuts. My prototypes and the LFRs were delivered together. Having had this interest I looked at LFRs specifically and found another company who would make LFRs to my design (though I have not used this facility yet).

This the second device I had made (the first was a similar design and made from 7075 anodised aluminium). I've shown this previously. This is made to my design from Duplex stainless with 2 x 316 2 part threaded LFRs to accept a catamaran bridle. It was meant to be polished but somehow and lost in translation - it was polished ..... then painted black. Its not always smooth sailing (and my wife speaks fluent Cantonese and Mandarin!).

LFRs are commonly made from 7075 aluminium, hard anodised with a teflon addition to the coating. I don't know how the taflen is incorporated into the hard anodising.

LFRs are being used instead of blocks married to the current interest in soft shackles, where the soft shackle is used to, say help build a cascade etc etc.

One of the problems of LFRs is that if an assembly can be left slack the working rope can fall out of the groove of the soft shackle and fall between the LFR and the shackle - not a big issue but a real nuisance - especially if you want to use the assembly NOW! not when you have scurried up the deck to sort it out.

This has been addressed by some suppliers, for example Antal's Sector Rings, Sectoring. I would link direct to Antal's website but their main website is apparently down and their replacement does not feature the Sectoring - a bit bizarre. This is from one of their distributors in Oz.

8mm SectoRing Spinning ring

Its a really simple concept and what they have developed over comes the issue I mentioned and takes LFRs a step further, Antal have other developments (for which Have no current interest).

I have a novel use for LFRs on which I have been working, had the problem I mentioned, saw Antal's iteration and had my own made -

Using a 3D printer

Our son has a biggish printer, he printed a, roughly, 20cm owl, and my needs are quite modest - compared to the owl. I drew up the dimensions, he converted to an acceptable file - I have a first prototype. It needs a bit of tweaking - and I wondered how others, who sail, might have managed with their 3D printers.

Now part of the motivation is that if you buy LFRs direct from China they are cheap, I suspect I could have my little components made in China in numbers also very cheaply - so part of the focus was dictated by restricting the flow of cash, unnecessarily.

But I now have a component, I only have one complete that meets my needs (not tried it yet) and I thought to investigate what other novel uses might be hidden on yachts.

I take on board we might have used the wrong polymer, I need to investigate what was used and also try my device in the cold light of seawater.

But maybe those expensive Harken/Lewmar blocks could be usurped - with a little bit of lateral thinking and some entrepeneurial skill

This is my concept, which you need to view alongside an image of the Antal Sectoring.

The soft shackle offers both the support, or the means to attach, and secures the arc of plastic. If the LFR rotates the arc moves with the dyneema, so the ring slips and the dyneema and arc stay stationary (if that makes sense)



I have not yet tried the device in anger yet - we are enjoying record rainfall. I may need to attach a 'lug' to better secure the device to the dyneema soft shackle - we will wait and see. Simply looking at the device the working rope, in this case the orange rope, can move back and forth in the groove of the LFR and is retained securely in the groove - it cannot fall out - so I have achieved that requirement - whether I missed something I'll find out later.

I've since made a bigger soft shackle, longer. It is attached at one end with a cow hitch and another, larger cow hitch at the LFR end. Instead of 2 turns it uses 3 - but that might change.....

I had a thread on soft shackles and fids and made very long fid, 75cm, actually 2 (from an old morse cable) to allow me to make longer shackles with eyes at both ends. I needed 2 fids so that both could be inserted simultaneously to allow pulling from both ends. I mentioned earlier in this piece I have been offered protoype manufacturing facilities to make LFRs yo my design - I may not follow through - but may make my 3D printed arc from aluminium.... just an idea.

Next instalment - when it stops raining....

Hopefully I might encourage people to look more critically at some of out more common devices and find alternatives....designs or methods of manufacture

Jonathan

 

[Neeves]

This is a photo of the LFR with the extra turn round both the LFR and the arc of plastic. Its just 3 turns and a cow hitch with a single cow hitch at the other end.

The dyneema is carbon impregnated, I recall meant to be better UV resistant ?? (and maybe more slippery) the carbon means everything turns black, including the arc of plastic and your hands .

Jonathan

 

[wiggy]

I made new hinges and catches, the black sections in the image, from ABS for 7 port lights, the acrylic was cut on my schools laser cutter.

 

[Refueler]

LFR ..... lets be honest - that's an application that PLASTIC can never perform well at regardless of moulded or printed.

3D prints are more for minimal load bearing items where wear and tear / friction are low.

 

[Neeves]

LFR ..... lets be honest - that's an application that PLASTIC can never perform well at regardless of moulded or printed.

3D prints are more for minimal load bearing items where wear and tear / friction are low.

Where is the friction, where is the load? - in fact what is the load?

Many sheaves are.....plastic

The LFRs are 7075 aluminium. The only printed items is simply a guide to stop the rope falling between the aluminium LFR and the dyneema soft shackle.

Jonathan

 

[Neeves]

For those who are unfamiliar with LFRs this is but one link explaining their usage

High Load Thimbles – Why, When, Where?

Most of Allen's application describes where the working rope passes through the centre of the ring but they do acknowledge you could have the working rope using the groove round the outside. I am using the groove round the outside for the working rope - the ring is actually meant to be stationary, not turn. I am using the LFR as a sheave in a block and relying on the 'LOW' friction of the block to allow the working rope to move.. A block is usually closed by the frame in which it is contained and supported and the frame retains the working rope. My arc of plastic is not meant to be in contact with the working rope - so no friction nor is expected to accept any load, though it may be compressed by the dyneema soft shackle (which may be an issue). It is possible to rejig the soft shackle such that it does not tighten and compress the arc, its actually how I originally intended to assemble the device - but it is not as neat.

Jonathan

 

[Refueler]

Where is the friction, where is the load? - in fact what is the load?

Many sheaves are.....plastic

The LFRs are 7075 aluminium. The only printed items is simply a guide to stop the rope falling between the aluminium LFR and the dyneema soft shackle.

Jonathan

Suggest look into the plastics used for 'your' items and whether that material is available for 3D priniting.

We are already seeing filaments with wood ... other materials combined to alter the cosmetics and use of the filament. PETG is a good example - where the 'G' is added to make the final item more flexible ....
There are even filaments with metals in .. but they are industrial ...

Its worth remembering why 3D printing appeared ............ it was originally to create parts for Space Exploration projects with NASA / European Space Agency etc.

 

[Refueler]

May I ask what laser cutter you have and the power/thickness capacity of the laser?

I had trouble linking example ... but here goes ...

This is a full aerobatic machine with 1.4 to 1.0 Power to weight .... capable of every manouevre in the book ... literally ...

Powered by 15cc 4str Glow engine.

This is after one of days you try to forget :

with of course the customary 'bag of bits' ..

A lot of the bits were still held by the selfadhesive shrink covering ...

Anyway - set to getting frames back to good and removing the bits ... seeing where bits can marry again ... zap with CA and create templates. Once back to basics - place frames back as if they were complete and block straight etc. Measure / align ...
Tack in pieces to hold it ... then using a standard flatbed scanner start scanning the areas needing new sections. Paint program is good enough to trim / correct any scan in JPG .... transfer JPG to Laser program ... vectorise and then cut ...

Here's final result after 5 days work ... fuselage and wings rebuild ..... just needing cosmetics to engine cowl and logos etc. :