2nd Hand Yachts

[DKnight]

Yet another weekend spent looking around boat yards, and all the boats described as "excellent", "good" or "clean condition" can only be descibed as rubbish. If its not the Brokers checking the boats out, then is it the owners not maintaining their boats properly and still expecting top dollar prices.

It is almost enough to make me considering buying new, all for a similar price, without the smelly heads, damp, crappy varnish work, knackered engines, new rigging required, and very tired sails - all for £55K !!!!!

Speaking to other people also looking they were as disgusted and disillusioned as me!

HOW CAN A TIRED BOAT EVEN OF "QUALITY" BUILD BE WORTH THE SAME AS A NEW BOAT OF EQUAL SIZE AND WITH A LLOYDS CERTIFICATE!

Surely by asking over the odds for a 2nd hand boat, is just helping the profits of those manufacturers who are prepared to install modern manufacturing techniques and use modern materials.Who has actually said that these boats are lesser than that of their elder cousins?

May be its time for us boat owners, to realise the real value of their boats, and that when there is a dramatic fall in the cost of new,(as we have seen in the last few years), then it must be reflected in the 2nd hand market place.

Forget the arguement that a 2nd Hand boat comes with all the "Gear" the previous owner has put on - what value has a 12 year old radar when new is relativly cheap and of such superior quality.

One of the boats that I have viewed was taken in as a part exchange by a manufacturer, only to have all the"bits" removed including spinnaker & pole, GPS/ plotter, boat hook, fenders, warps, etc. etc..Leaving only a old hull, tired sails, out of time rigging, and an engine that requires attention.

I may just be joining the band of yachties at the boat show buying new

COME ON GET REAL - KNACKERED BOATS ONLY DISERVE A VALUE THAT TAKES INTO CONSIDERATION THE TRUE COST OF PUTTING IT RIGHT.

What do you think!!!

DK

 

[chrisc]

Came to exactly same conclusion two years ago ,in
real terms it was cheaper to buy new .Which we did.

 

[SimonD]

I couldn't agree more. I recently bought a cruiser at a very reasonable price (due largely to the seller's circumstances) and look like spending the difference between the purchase price and the 'book' price on getting it into decent condition. Nearly all of the expense is on basic safety equipment and replacing worn-out gear. My experience of looking at second hand boats suggests that this was not the reason for the price. Everything I looked at needed a similar amount of money spending, regardless of the asking price. I didn't see one boat which could honestly be described as 'in good condition'. One offering literally looked like it had been abandonded after a particularly rough channel crossing - about six months previously!

Based on my experience, I'd advise anyone with £10k - £15k to spend on a second-hand boat to hold back at least £3-4k to get it into reasonable condition.

 

[Guest]

Wonder what your opinion would be if you were selling...

Beth

 

[JeremyF]

This is a bit of a broadside posting. I rekon that there has been a 10% reduction in the achieved price for second-hand boats in the last 6 months. Ive got a Moody 31 to sell, and plan to put it up for sail at 10% lower than 6 months ago.

I don't think the comments about the state of second-hand yachts is at all fair - it depends on the specifics. Maybe you've just seen tired old ones 'abandoned' by the owners for the brokers to sell.

The shell of a 15 year old yacht will normally be in good condition for another 15 years. A well-maintained diesel will go on for ages. If you can get this at 1/2 the price of a new yacht, and maybe budget for some new sails, you have a good deal.

I'm looking at a new Bav 34, primarily for space reasons. There is no way the internal build quality is up to the Moody, nor am I impressed by the cheapo 19hp, compared to the 28hp Volvo in the Moody.

Also, don't be taken in by the ex-works price of new mass market boats. The "£51000" Bav 34 is at least £64k on the water, and kitted out. For half that you can find a fine mid-80's well-built Moody or Westerley.

 

[billmacfarlane]

I'm afraid I hold yacht brokers in the same regard as estate agents as both of them speak the same language. Treat everything they say with a pinch of salt and make up your own mind about the value of a boat. A pal of mine spent last winter looking for a boat and had similar problems to yourself. Part of the problem as he saw it was the brokers asking totally unrealistic prices for the boats , in some cases without actually having seen them. He put in offers for a couple taking into account the state of them , which were refused. A year later they are still for sale at the same high price ! Bear in mind if you do decide to buy from new to add at least 10% for extras for it.

 

[claymore]

Not being in the position of being able to afford a new boat I've always bought 2nd hand. It's exactly the same as buying a house or a car - you need some common sense, some imagination and the ability to be blunt when dealing and to walk away if its not for you. All boats can get smelly when locked up for a while and equally it is often possible to rid them of smells with a bit of care and work. I think the whole idea of value is hard to establish, particularly when we see "ideal starter boats" at 30ft+ and priced at £50k+.
If you are handy and can do the work then you can work wonders on boats - if you are too busy or are not confident in your ability to do the jobs then you have to pay for them to be done. As for the price of electronics - the main criteria is whether they work and not whether they have the latest features. but My 12 year old radar works a treat - it cost a lot more when installed than similar technology would cost now but how relevant is that when I'm not thinking of replacing it?

 

[chrisc]

My 34 was almost exactly 50 thou ,with 29hp and with RR main,
painted in the water and rigged . in fact we raced it within hours of
taking delivery (which was a bit extreme) Difference was I did'nt
get it in UK.

 

[AndrewB]

Yes, the brokers do have a lot to answer for ...

Put my yacht up for sale last year and was amazed when the well-known S. Coast broker pencilled in an asking price 25% above what I thought reasonable.

Greedily, we went along with it. Needless to say, we got no serious offers - total waste of everyone's time. Now we are keeping the yacht, and I can't say I'm sorry.

 

[JeremyF]

If you got a new Bav 34 at £50k you did exceptionally well. Ive done some investigation on pricing. They have a common Euro ex-works price. Other dealers may charge less than Opal for deleivery and commissioning, but the baseline ex-works is about the same in Europe. I checked Holland, and got about the same price

 

[DKnight]

Re: chrisc

Very interesting £50K for a New 34 with 29HP- how did you do that?

DK

 

[DKnight]

Re: 2nd Hand Yachts/ beth

I HAVE sold my boat, I found it cheap, and in the nettles at a boat yard. After much TLC over 3 years, I recently sold it approaching, twice of what I paid for it - within 4 weeks. That boat's condition allowed this to happen. My total expenditure on the boat probably equalled the selling price

What I have difficulty with is spending £55K on a boat that needs £8K to bring it up to spec. and ending up with a boat that only worth £55K

DK

 

[Guest]

Re: 2nd Hand Yachts/ beth

Ok so you did find a cheaper one and sold it!...so how do all these broakers earn a living if all the boats are junk?? you can allways make an offer! also some people are guided by the broakers(as said in other posts) and told how much to sell for..what i dont understand is people think nothing of buying a new jag or bmw and loosing 20K..but same people looking to scrimp on antifoul...etc..etc.

Beth

 

[chrisc]

This was in Germany, very flexible pricing ...
i believe they sold more Bavarias than anyone else in world
last year ,lot of it was charter boats ,and the prices were
charter boat prices -I believe they are selling Hanse this year.

 

[chrisc]

Re: 2nd Hand Yachts/ beth

Beth, talking of Second Hand, how did you get on with the Malö ?
sounded a reasonable deal

 

[bedouin]

Rather like houses - I suspect there are two types of boats on the market. Those that are realistically priced and sell quickly, and those that are unrealistically priced and don't sell at all.

Looking at those boats for sale at any given moment - the majority will be of the second sort; the more reasonably priced boats will sell much faster and so don't stick. Also, if the broker does make a mistake with the description; describing as 'excellent' a boat that is mediocre or poor, that too will make it stick.

In general though, quality costs. You would expect to pay more for a 2nd hand Mercedes than for a new Ford (replace with your own favourite luxury and mass-market brands). A tired quality boat can be made into a first-class quality boat with a bit of TLC (and a lot of dosh). A poor-quality boat will always be poor-quality (although I don't necessarily equate cheap with poor quality).

The other aspect is that there is very little diversity at the cheaper end of the market. That is dominated by a few big brands who build boats to a very similar formula. If you happen to want something different then you have to go either to the low-volume producers (=expensive) or 2nd hand.

 

[Guest]

Re: 2nd Hand Yachts/ beth

hi chris
Re Marlo cant seem to get a fixed date of age have asked owner to ask malo year by giving eng no. not come back yet



Beth

 

[Guest]

I just spent 45k on a boat owned by a broker, it was filthy with rubbish everywhere. They did not even go through things when I got the keys, if I bought a car they would have cleaned. I did not get any thanks for buying the boat or even a Christmas Card. I like the boat but I can not believe that brokers can opperate in such a poor way. All the boats I have looked at mainly in the North were all pretty bad state. Not one broker has followed up a visit to see if I was interested in any of the boats I viewed, one broker has ignored several emails for information requests. Not sure what you all do for a living but the Company I work for would go bust if they treated customers like brokers treat us. I think they also want to deal with folk with a reefer and a few initials after thier names

I gave my boat in part exchange, it was very tidy and clean, fool that I am.

IF YOU ARE A BROKER READ THESE THREADS AND ASK YOURSELF IF YOU OPERATE LIKE THIS, IF SO CHANGE!

 

[david_e]

Most of these posts sum it up, have been there, had the bad experiences and got the T shirt as they say. Fortunately so far I have only lost time and travelling costs in my efforts to upgrade. In future I will be asking many searching questions before I travel to inspect a used boat. What I would be interested to know is; are there any "Codes of Practice" that brokers submit to via their Trade Associations?
Anyone know or had need to refer to them?

 

[LadyInBed]

There is hope

When I decided that I needed a bigger boat I looked around for a couple of years before finding a boat in good condition at a price and specification that I had set for myself.
Yes I've had to spend nearly 3k to add Autohelm Radar and Wind Generator, but I had negotiated that off of the asking price, and have the advantage that the major part of the electronics are all new.
I was fortunate that my ‘spec’ encompassed the Colvic Countess 33 – a self build, and when you find one that someone has spared no expense fitting out, you can only feel privileged to own and maintain it at the same level.
OK most of the brokers definitely do NOT earn their money, and are worse than Estate Agents, but that seems to apply mainly to the bigger names and tired old one man bands. I found a fresh young one man band works a bit harder for his crust.