14 Months and still not back in the water.... Can anyone help?

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2013PrincessV39

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Hi Everyone,

I wanted to let the forum know about the incident that occurred to me and family in August 2018, as we are still not back in the water 14 months later, and dealing with this insurance claim has become my second job in terms of the absurd amount of time it is taking on a weekly basis.

If anyone on here has any legal or insurance related experience, could they DM or reply so I can catch them up on where we are at at the moment? We really need some advice/help.

AFTER READING THE BELOW REPORT, PLEASE CONSIDER THE FOLLOWING:

- our marina term at port solent ended shortly after the incident, and so we did not renew. Instead we opted to move to Berthon (odd way to meet our new marina as you will read!) however as we were initially told the repair would take weeks around March, we took out our marina berth at Lymington Berthon, which we are still paying for but remains vacant since Aprils start date.

- Our insurers, Legal follow up and Princess have passed the full brunt of the work around this case onto us (me) as owners, and the only language they are using concerns who is going to pay; a sticky point that is responsible for this long and drawn out process.

- we are the only owners of the vessel from new, and the fault has been identified as a manufacturing fault (bellows installed at an 11 degree off angle).

- All on board were very much at danger of death, due to the Raw Exhaust fumes that could have knocked us out, perhaps at speed. Only the coincidence of being within touching distance of Yarmouth assisted with the safe salvage of the vessel but more importantly MY FAMILY.

- as a result of the incident, I cannot speak highly enough of Sea Start, Yarmouth Harbour, Lymington Berthon and the Lifeboat team at Yarmouth. Berhton continue to be our only advisor, supporter and general well wisher when it comes to this whole debacle.

UPDATE: Depsite the incident occurring in August, the insurer has stated that certain items that have been replaced are considered yearly serviceable items and not something they will cover. If i had 4 tyres slashed, I cannot imagine my car insurer saying "well you were going to replace those in 9 months anyway so you're not covered"


Below is the incident report I filed minus names

PRE – INCIDENT PASSAGE INFO – 02/08/18
• Viola iii left here home berth at Port Solent at 1215 (DST) 2nd August 2018 after our standard preparations and engine checks; No faults encountered
• ON BOARD: Owner (Owner/Skipper/Crew) –myself (Son/Skipper/Crew) – Lexi (Dog)
• At 1315 we arrived at the entrance of Portsmouth ready to make our passage to Priory Bay for a day at anchor. No Issues we encountered with all systems performing as per usual.
• At 1332 we arrived and anchored successfully at Priory Bay, Isle of Wight, where we lay at anchor until 1637. The boat had performed as per usual en-route, although rather slow due to the increased build-up of fouling underneath and on the props due to the hot weather. (Photos Included)
• At 1637, we left Priory Bay to head West to our marina of choice for the evening, Yarmouth Harbour.
INCIDENT
• We arrived at the entrance to Yarmouth Harbour at 1800 (DST) and at this point, Owner notified her son who was arranging fenders that at exhaust type of smoke/gas was exiting through the Mid-Cabin Doorway into the Cockpit.
• A Harbour Guide Boat arrived to guide us to our berth (Berth 14) where we would tie off to investigate.
• The smoke worsened at this point and got thicker with soot appearing, and so we notified the Harbour Guide who decided to continue to the berth which was only roughly 10 metres away.
• As we manoeuvred the installed Carbon Monoxide Alarms sounded in the forward VIP cabin.
• We tied off on berth approximately 1805

• Once tied off, the engines were stopped, and Janet got Lexi (Dog) to safety.
• and the harbour guide and (myself) cautiously investigated the forward cabin, which was smoky and sooty. However, no cause was found. Knowing that the VIP cabin bilge linked to the engine room, we checked to see if the sealed rear cabin was clear, which it was although smoky from the travelling cloud of Exhaust fumes.
• As the cabins were clear of any visible cause and the Carbon Monoxide/exhaust fumes had calmed with the engines off, we headed back up to the cockpit to investigate the Engine room.

• At 1806, Sea Start, an emergency engineer callout service with whom we have a membership, were called as an emergency call out and an engineer team was dispatched ETA 1900.

• Jamiel and the Harbour Guide opened the Engine Bay Door and a cloud of soot and smoke exited quickly from the opening, covering the surrounding teak floor/grp in a layer of black soot.
• At this point we discovered we were taking on seawater aft, and at a high rate, with the 3 rear bilges running continuously to get the seawater out.


• Due to the soot, the lighting was bad and so a torch was used to identify the source of the water – The Starboard Exhaust Bellow, below water height.

• A Fist sized hole was identified; however, it was very dark and so no clear assessment was made at this time for any causes.

• At 1810, Princess 24/7 were called, who provide 24hour assistance to Princess Owners with engineers who know the boats layout to assist.
• Princess recommended running our Generator and switching to generator power, so that the batteries did not drain, and therefore bilges fail, as with the amount of water coning onboard we would lose the vessel.
• This was done on Princess’ instructions shortly after.

• Sea Start arrived around 1900 and work began to try and identify the problem and find a solution.
• Shortly after the Yarmouth Lifeboat crew also attended Viola III to try and assist with the problem.
• A short-term solution was found by the Lifeboat Engineer, by using a rolled-up towel and placing it down the Bellow shaft where the leak was, somewhat temporarily stemming the flow.
• On Board there was also Soot/Exhaust damage and staining to the Teak, GRP, and all items in the engine room, including our ToolKit. (Berthon Images will follow upon inspection)

• Around 2000, Seastart + Yarmouth Lifeboat Coxswain + Princess 24/7 agreed that the vessel needed lifting out the water, as overnight the now overworked bilge pumps would fail, and if they did, the vessel would sink. (Various Photos Attached of All Involved + Some Engine Room)
• After many calls being made by Sea Start and Yarmouth Harbour (who did not have a lift big enough for Viola III) the nearest emergency lift service available was at Lymington’s Berthon Marina.
• It was agreed that a Port Engine only crossing to Bethon Marina Lymington for a lift was our only option, and the Lifeboat Coxswain felt confident we would make it as the flow of seawater had been stemmed and the bilges would hold and further oncoming water.

• We crossed from Yarmouth on the port engine only at 2034, and the Lifeboat contacted the coastguard who would monitor the trip, with the Sea Start engineer team leaving a man on board with out and escorting us via their callout Rib Boat.
• We Arrived at Berthon at 2050, tied off to the lifts waiting pontoon and removed our personal items from the boat.
• The boat was walked into the lift and lifted at 2126

• Berthon Marina Agreed to Emergency Lift, Block off, Jets wash off the Fouling and Provide a report for our insurance the following morning (Email Attachment Included/Forwarded)

• Berthon Marina Arranged a taxi agreeing to transport (ALL) and our vast number of personal items removed from the vessel back to Port Solent for £70 which was paid in cash with receipt
 
Sorry to hear this .
Summary.
Belows on an exhaust popped off .

Somebody’s suggesting a “11 degree “ misalignment? As the route cause

Princess and your insurance Co have not paid up for claim .?

Just correct me if wrong .
Don’t sterndrive units the motors / flange-transom shield / leg - come in one unit ? If so how can there be any variation in the position of the motor and it’s leg ?
Realise there two bellows , exhaust and UJ joint .
If there is some variation possible position wise height wise what do VP say ? Is it within the VP allowed spec ?

Who serviced it last and has it been serviced within the manufacturers recommend intervals with Volvo ( assuming VP ) parts , particularly the jubilee clip(s) In other words have the other side got ammunition to fire at you ?
 
Hi P V39 , as freelance marine engineer specialising in this make of engine and drive can you clarify which part you mean when you describe it as the bellows.

Do you mean the rubber exhaust pipe that connects the exhaust elbow from the turbo to the exhaust horn that is attached to the transom shield ?

I have over the last year heard some stories about your boat as I am in Port Solent on a regular basis , it’s where I work from .
I am assuming it is the rubber hose that’s failed causing the fumes and the water ingress.
Are you aware that in some cases , many worldwide that the exhaust pipe failed causing some boats to take on water due to the design fault in the material used to make the pipe.

There was a recall of certain ID numbers whereby the pipe was changed under warranty, the later pipe has an anode point to delay the process of galvanic corrosion .

Over to you.
 
Hi P V39 , as freelance marine engineer specialising in this make of engine and drive can you clarify which part you mean when you describe it as the bellows.

Do you mean the rubber exhaust pipe that connects the exhaust elbow from the turbo to the exhaust horn that is attached to the transom shield ?

I have over the last year heard some stories about your boat as I am in Port Solent on a regular basis , it’s where I work from .
I am assuming it is the rubber hose that’s failed causing the fumes and the water ingress.
Are you aware that in some cases , many worldwide that the exhaust pipe failed causing some boats to take on water due to the design fault in the material used to make the pipe.

There was a recall of certain ID numbers whereby the pipe was changed under warranty, the later pipe has an anode point to delay the process of galvanic corrosion .

Over to you.

IMG_3058.jpgIMG_3058.jpgIMG_3058.jpgIMG_3058.jpg
 
Sorry to hear this .
Summary.
Belows on an exhaust popped off .

Somebody’s suggesting a “11 degree “ misalignment? As the route cause

Princess and your insurance Co have not paid up for claim .?

Just correct me if wrong .
Don’t sterndrive units the motors / flange-transom shield / leg - come in one unit ? If so how can there be any variation in the position of the motor and it’s leg ?
Realise there two bellows , exhaust and UJ joint .
If there is some variation possible position wise height wise what do VP say ? Is it within the VP allowed spec ?

Who serviced it last and has it been serviced within the manufacturers recommend intervals with Volvo ( assuming VP ) parts , particularly the jubilee clip(s) In other words have the other side got ammunition to fire at you ?


PF , OP is describing bellows which we are thinking exhaust and drive shaft on the outside of the boat, either of these failing won’t allow water or exhaust gas into the boat .

I’m assuming it’s the rubber pipe between the exhaust elbow water injection point and the exhaust horn or pipe from the transom shield inside up to the turbo , this failing will cause this gas problem inside the boat .

Hot is topic here as Volvo know all about this , I’m assuming the 11 degree poor fit is down to past work done , I’m wondering if this boats had the recall.

The turbo exhaust elbow also has to be removed to complete many service tasks for example, replacement of the trim hoses , shift gear cable , steering indicator cable on the starboard drive .
So has this part been poorly fitted netting this very sad result for the OP.

I am surprised the OP hasn’t employed as surveyor or a third party engineer / expert witness as he’s been out of action for such a long time .

I wonder who has been employed to do the work as it’s engjnes out which isn’t easy on the V39 as it requires the aft deck removing which destroys the teak amongst other items.
This design of boat wasn’t great in that dept , it certainly isn’t an easy one to service in certain areas.
 
I can’t tell a lot from that pic other than it’s the rubber joint as I described not the bellows on the drive.

I think you need to see the old parts to deduce how and why this has happened which may be difficult after the time span .

Who is carrying out the repairs ?
 
So are you saying that your insurer is rejecting the full claim ?

If it’s the case of the exhaust alloy pipe corroding away which in turn causes the rubber pipe to blow off then this is down to the possibility of poor servicing , or possibly you slipped through the net if your engines are in the batch of warranty recall on the exhaust horn .

If it’s not in the claim zone from VP then the corrosion must have been visible on the yearly service which should have been noted and reported to you , this is something that I am very keen on examining at service on D4/6 stern drive boats .
Can’t say any more until you give us more info on service history etc.
 
PF , OP is describing bellows which we are thinking exhaust and drive shaft on the outside of the boat, either of these failing won’t allow water or exhaust gas into the boat .

I’m assuming it’s the rubber pipe between the exhaust elbow water injection point and the exhaust horn or pipe from the transom shield inside up to the turbo , this failing will cause this gas problem inside the boat .

Hot is topic here as Volvo know all about this , I’m assuming the 11 degree poor fit is down to past work done , I’m wondering if this boats had the recall.

The turbo exhaust elbow also has to be removed to complete many service tasks for example, replacement of the trim hoses , shift gear cable , steering indicator cable on the starboard drive .
So has this part been poorly fitted netting this very sad result for the OP.

I am surprised the OP hasn’t employed as surveyor or a third party engineer / expert witness as he’s been out of action for such a long time .

I wonder who has been employed to do the work as it’s engjnes out which isn’t easy on the V39 as it requires the aft deck removing which destroys the teak amongst other items.
This design of boat wasn’t great in that dept , it certainly isn’t an easy one to service in certain areas.

Thx P gotcha .:encouragement:

Yes I remember vaguely a rubber flange that connects to the ally horn from the turbo on the KAD 300 .
I removed it once to replace an elbow and I was horrified by the corrosion around the ally lip on top of the horn .
Elbow had classic rust spots coming through the green paint ....from the inside and the spray head was severely corroded .
Anyhow it ( rubber bit ) was a 8ugger to refit , align and clip .
I sold the boat at the end of that season and migrated away from VP sterndrives .It felt like I was coming up to a big engine out overhaul .
 
PORTOFINO

- Bellows ruptured a fist sized hole, rather than popping off.
- The paying out is the problem, as we had an awful process of me having to source several yards, repairers and opinions, and cam across some "characters" claiming to be able to repair it one way, when in reality, as Volvo Paul has pointed out, we had to have an entire soft hatch removal. This led to replacing the engines actually being the cheap option for all to see, however the surveyor truly answers to the insurers and so we have ended up with a repair of old and new parts that has costed 150%+ more. We also were refused to be able to use our own Berthon Marina for some rather shady reasoning regarding preferred repair providers.
- All up to date on servicing, all volvo, all done by Princess. The repair is also now with princess.

NB. Princess only contact me if i hassle them day and night for at least 3 days straight. I wish that this was an exaggeration...

VOLVOPAUL
- I know we had a recall regarding an alternator but that was all. no notification was received for this other issue. (just double checked all related emails)
 
So are you saying that your insurer is rejecting the full claim ?

If it’s the case of the exhaust alloy pipe corroding away which in turn causes the rubber pipe to blow off then this is down to the possibility of poor servicing , or possibly you slipped through the net if your engines are in the batch of warranty recall on the exhaust horn .

If it’s not in the claim zone from VP then the corrosion must have been visible on the yearly service which should have been noted and reported to you , this is something that I am very keen on examining at service on D4/6 stern drive boats .
Can’t say any more until you give us more info on service history etc.

The insurer is paying the claim, but is not covering certain parts, which we still do not fully understand why. They say some parts would eventually be changed at service anyway so they dont cover them, but If they are working at the time of the incident, then thats how they should be returned.

No corrosion noted on service.

I am going to see about the service history now to see what i can share etc.
 
Thx P gotcha .:encouragement:

Yes I remember vaguely a rubber flange that connects to the ally horn from the turbo on the KAD 300 .
I removed it once to replace an elbow and I was horrified by the corrosion around the ally lip on top of the horn .
Elbow had classic rust spots coming through the green paint ....from the inside and the spray head was severely corroded .
Anyhow it ( rubber bit ) was a 8ugger to refit , align and clip .
I sold the boat at the end of that season and migrated away from VP sterndrives .It felt like I was coming up to a big engine out overhaul .

The insurance carried out one survey, and this is the same ongoing surveyor who has to give the go ahead for money to be released to cover the "reasonable costs"

This is the same surveyor who identified the 11 degree bad angle.

meanwhile Princess also carried out a survey, however although they did not dispute the installation angle, they instead focused on the build up of fouling on the drive legs, which they claim prevented the water inflow. This was a hot summer.
 
PORTOFINO

- Bellows ruptured a fist sized hole, rather than popping off.
- The paying out is the problem, as we had an awful process of me having to source several yards, repairers and opinions, and cam across some "characters" claiming to be able to repair it one way, when in reality, as Volvo Paul has pointed out, we had to have an entire soft hatch removal. This led to replacing the engines actually being the cheap option for all to see, however the surveyor truly answers to the insurers and so we have ended up with a repair of old and new parts that has costed 150%+ more. We also were refused to be able to use our own Berthon Marina for some rather shady reasoning regarding preferred repair providers.
- All up to date on servicing, all volvo, all done by Princess. The repair is also now with princess.

NB. Princess only contact me if i hassle them day and night for at least 3 days straight. I wish that this was an exaggeration...

VOLVOPAUL
- I know we had a recall regarding an alternator but that was all. no notification was received for this other issue. (just double checked all related emails)
So you have had 2 new engines as the engine room was flooded , I can definitely reason with that on a full electronic engine .
Everything on the engine should have been supplied as a package , I would only deduce you have been charged for sundress’s items like oil and coolant for the engines .
You would have been charged for service items on each drive as the drives would have to be removed to process the engine removal .

I remember when VP were changing the exhaust horns , they would only do this when the owner PAID for the drive service because the drives had to be removed , left a nasty taste for some owners I can relate .

Send us a list of what they think you should pay for .

Which company has done the work ?
 
The insurance carried out one survey, and this is the same ongoing surveyor who has to give the go ahead for money to be released to cover the "reasonable costs"

This is the same surveyor who identified the 11 degree bad angle.

meanwhile Princess also carried out a survey, however although they did not dispute the installation angle, they instead focused on the build up of fouling on the drive legs, which they claim prevented the water inflow. This was a hot summer.

If there was no overheat on the day in question when the boat was up on the plane then there is no reason from P to suggest it was the lack of salt water exiting the exhaust that would cause the bellows to melt causing the hole in the rubber pipe, the 11 degree bad fit is down to whoever fitted it after repair / service work , easily done as the exhaust elbow is on a clamp that can be tighten up at any angle.
 
The insurance carried out one survey, and this is the same ongoing surveyor who has to give the go ahead for money to be released to cover the "reasonable costs"

This is the same surveyor who identified the 11 degree bad angle.

meanwhile Princess also carried out a survey, however although they did not dispute the installation angle, they instead focused on the build up of fouling on the drive legs, which they claim prevented the water inflow. This was a hot summer.

So the rupture of that plastic / rubber part is thought to be heat related ?
Impeded water flow maybe ( possible slight rise in jacket temps ) but normal gas flow vol but if the props are fouled it’s incredible how that gas , we call it EGT , exhaust gas temp shoots up .
I’ve been banging on about being mindful of EGT s on here for ages .
Having said that .....
Perhaps with your D6 / D4 modern set up overload is not achievable by the electrotwackery ??
 
So the rupture of that plastic / rubber part is thought to be heat related ?
Impeded water flow maybe ( possible slight rise in jacket temps ) but normal gas flow vol but if the props are fouled it’s incredible how that gas , we call it EGT , exhaust gas temp shoots up .
I’ve been banging on about being mindful of EGT s on here for ages .
Having said that .....
Perhaps with your D6 / D4 modern set up overload is not achievable by the electrotwackery ??

Exactly, overheat alarm will come on putting engine to limp mode so no reason as I said to suggest high EGT .
There is a cop out here somewhere , I can sure smell it .
 
Hi Volvo Paul,

So to be clear, we did not get 2 new engines.

We got our current engines stripped and repaired with some parts that could be used and some that couldn't. Princess were VERY unhappy about this but the surveyor insisted and so the insurance would only pay out this way. They offered us the option of some money for "reasonable costs", but we then pay the rest for new engines, but it was a huge amount and we couldn't afford it.

They want us to pay for:
X P7142 Hempel black antifou 1 176.00 EACH 0.00 176.00 S
X P76300 Hempel white antifou 1 176.00 EACH 0.00 176.00 S
X Z3588745 Volvo DPH leg anodes 2 38.00 EACH 0.00 76.00 S
X Z3588746 Stern drive anodes 2 42.30 EACH 0.00 84.60 S
X Z3588753 Dph bellows kit 2 55.50 EACH 0.00 111.00 S
X Z3594509 Drive Bellows Kit DP 2 46.30 EACH 0.00 92.60 S
X Z964114 Volvo dph oring 2 0.66 EACH 0.00 1.32 S
X Z889455 Volvo dph washer 2 2.50 EACH 0.00 5.00 S
X Z949656 Volvo gasket 2 1.10 EACH 0.00 2.20 S
hull Antifoul
Z22479648 Ips gear oil 5 ltr 2 88.80 EACH 0.00 177.60 S
X Z22479650 Dph oil 1 ltr 2 19.60 EACH 0.00 39.20 S
X Z22274885 Volvo hose clamp 2 3.30 EACH 0.00 6.60 S
X Z3862903 Volvo bushing 4 1.50 EACH 0.00 6.00 S
X Z3589516 Wear Washer 4 5.80 EACH 0.00 23.20 S
X Z21243935 Volvo lock ring 2 4.20 EACH 0.00 8.40 S
X Z21868040 Anode kit 2 51.50 EACH 0.00 103.00 S
X Z3863213 Dph prop nut 2 20.70 EACH 0.00 41.40 S
X Z3863211 Dph prop nut 2 22.50 EACH 0.00 45.00 S
X Z22479648 Ips gear oil 5 ltr 1 88.80 EACH 0.00 88.80 S
X Z3584238 Hot water valve 1 69.20 EACH 0.00 69.20 S
X Z21868040 Anode kit 1 51.50 EACH 0.00 51.50 S
Small Aluminium Thru 13.5
2 x Small trim tab anode 18.31
Hot Water Valve 69.20
Anode Kit 51.5
 
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