Sorry in advance, but... retaining EU VAT paid status

[st599]

I know Ill get shot down, but, get a T2L, this is basically the Reveners saying that your boat is "European taxes paid" by attesting that it is EU goods. So next year you have a piece of paper saying that your boat was eu tax paid, a good arguing point! Bottom line, nobody really knows until it happens, but a pile of paper to give to johnny foreigner with a gun is always a good start!

RYA published new advice yesterday. The asked the European Commission for a legal statement on the T2L from next year onwards. EC have replied not valid and informed the EU member states.

 

[greeny]

We all know the T2L meant very little with regard to VAT status, however some countries were accepting it as such. So the RYA ask a question, the answer is negative and now removes our option to use the T2L in this way. (correctly or incorrectly). Smart move by the RYA then! Whose side are they on?

 

[Graham376]

We all know the T2L meant very little with regard to VAT status, however some countries were accepting it as such. So the RYA ask a question, the answer is negative and now removes our option to use the T2L in this way. (correctly or incorrectly). Smart move by the RYA then! Whose side are they on?

UK VAT said they suspected the same a while ago when I contacted them so not a surprise. For those of us in Portugal and Croatia (AFAIK the only two countries who ask for them) don't bin them. They will form part of the paperwork trail and taken as confirmation the boat is in free movement this year.

 

[nortada]

We all know the T2L meant very little with regard to VAT status, however some countries were accepting it as such. So the RYA ask a question, the answer is negative and now removes our option to use the T2L in this way. (correctly or incorrectly). Smart move by the RYA then! Whose side are they on?

T2L never had any relevance to a private yacht cruising the EU so nothing has changed but it could still prove a useful piece of paper come the future.

Penny to a pound, the official demanding sight of your T2L doesn't know the rules and it could give you time to vamoose.

As to the broader question, "Whose side are they on?" Answer, the RYA's side which may or may not coincide with your best interests.

Personally, I never rely on advice from the RYA but research it for my self.

 

[Chris_Robb]

T2L never had any relevance to a private yacht cruising the EU so nothing has changed but it could still prove a useful piece of paper come the future.

Penny to a pound, the official demanding sight of your T2L doesn't know the rules and it could give you time to vamoose.

As to the broader question, "Whose side are they on?" Answer, the RYA's side which may or may not coincide with your best interests.

Personally, I never rely on advice from the RYA but research it for my self.

You are right about the RYA - they are a waste of time to the Cruising Yachtsman. They were clearly asleep at the helm in breech of Col regs in respect of the Vat issues.
T2L - not surprised here at all - but yes - dont chuck it away, you never know if it could supply eveidence to an unknown situation in the future.

 

[tkalfaoglu]

IMHO, the deadline was pushed back a year, to the end of 2021.. Otherwise totally confused about the whole thing.

 

[nortada]

IMHO, the deadline was pushed back a year, to the end of 2021.. Otherwise totally confused about the whole thing.

IMHO, at present the whole thing is up in the air so it is premature to make any assumptions.

Think we need to get passed 31/12 and then review the whole situation in the light of fact rather than speculation.

Of course, rather than Brexit related, this VAT issues is the result of a change of heart and U turn by HMRC. Suitable pressure may well be brought for them to have another think.

Bottom line - whatever the outcome, it will have little impact on us long term cruisers and expats.

 

[Graham376]

Bottom line - whatever the outcome, it will have little impact on us long term cruisers and expats.

Not sure I agree with you, this is from the recent RYA report (my bold) - Brexit - what happens next? | Current Affairs | Knowledge & Advice | RYA - Royal Yachting Association

The documentation (such as a T2L, customs opinion letter or other supporting documentation) issued by the UK before the end of the transition period shall not be valid in the EU as of the end of the transition period. Therefore, for a boat lying in the EU at the end of the transition period, the person concerned will need to submit a new request to obtain a proof of Union status to one of the Customs authorities in the EU. Regarding the VAT invoice, if there is a proof that the VAT has been paid in the EU before the end of the transition period, then this proof may be used in order to demonstrate the Union status of the craft. In case this payment can be verified on the invoice, then the invoice itself may be used in order to demonstrate the Union status of the craft.

Not sure I want to visit Portuguese Customs, they can be absolute barstewards.

 

[nortada]

Not sure I agree with you, this is from the recent RYA report (my bold) - Brexit - what happens next? | Current Affairs | Knowledge & Advice | RYA - Royal Yachting Association

The documentation (such as a T2L, customs opinion letter or other supporting documentation) issued by the UK before the end of the transition period shall not be valid in the EU as of the end of the transition period. Therefore, for a boat lying in the EU at the end of the transition period, the person concerned will need to submit a new request to obtain a proof of Union status to one of the Customs authorities in the EU. Regarding the VAT invoice, if there is a proof that the VAT has been paid in the EU before the end of the transition period, then this proof may be used in order to demonstrate the Union status of the craft. In case this payment can be verified on the invoice, then the invoice itself may be used in order to demonstrate the Union status of the craft.

Not sure I want to visit Portuguese Customs, they can be absolute barstewards.

Notwithstanding this I think we are still in the land of the great unknown so everything is up for grabs.

Where does the hitherto, understanding that British registered boats lying in the EU on 31/12 will retain their EU VAT status, sit with this latest RYA brief?

I am becoming more convinced that many agencies (HMRC etc.) are slipping in changes and laying it at Brexit’s door.

The RYA are indulging in an arse covering exercise so they will always be able to say, “We warned you!”

As to visiting Portuguese Customs (PC); I won’t go looking for them but if requested, I can produce the original Bill of Sale indicating that VAT was paid in 1998, when the U.K. was still in the E. U. (supported by a T2L?).

I reality, I think it unlikely that PC will visit boats long, established in Portugal, requesting proof of VAT paid but it could happen when the boat is sold.

As we approach 31/12 this issue is well down my list of things to resolve

ps sorry for the late amendments.

 

[Chris_Robb]

Not sure I agree with you, this is from the recent RYA report (my bold) - Brexit - what happens next? | Current Affairs | Knowledge & Advice | RYA - Royal Yachting Association

The documentation (such as a T2L, customs opinion letter or other supporting documentation) issued by the UK before the end of the transition period shall not be valid in the EU as of the end of the transition period. Therefore, for a boat lying in the EU at the end of the transition period, the person concerned will need to submit a new request to obtain a proof of Union status to one of the Customs authorities in the EU. Regarding the VAT invoice, if there is a proof that the VAT has been paid in the EU before the end of the transition period, then this proof may be used in order to demonstrate the Union status of the craft. In case this payment can be verified on the invoice, then the invoice itself may be used in order to demonstrate the Union status of the craft.

Not sure I want to visit Portuguese Customs, they can be absolute barstewards.

Graham, I actually don't take much notice of the RYA. I spoke to an old acquaintance in HMRC. Turns our he was at all the meetings with the RYA and other pleasureboat, what ever that means. I asked him why the CA was not invited, and he said that he thought the RYA was acting on our behalf! It's is outrageous.

It is the CAs position that we want the status quo, dated from 31dec 2020 to be maintained. All the issues go away.

So we have finally had a chance to put our position, having written off the External Stakeholder mob..... I hope we will make progress. I hope we will now have access to the organ grinder and not the monkeys we have had so far!

 

[Chris_Robb]

Not sure I agree with you, this is from the recent RYA report (my bold) - Brexit - what happens next? | Current Affairs | Knowledge & Advice | RYA - Royal Yachting Association

The documentation (such as a T2L, customs opinion letter or other supporting documentation) issued by the UK before the end of the transition period shall not be valid in the EU as of the end of the transition period. Therefore, for a boat lying in the EU at the end of the transition period, the person concerned will need to submit a new request to obtain a proof of Union status to one of the Customs authorities in the EU. Regarding the VAT invoice, if there is a proof that the VAT has been paid in the EU before the end of the transition period, then this proof may be used in order to demonstrate the Union status of the craft. In case this payment can be verified on the invoice, then the invoice itself may be used in order to demonstrate the Union status of the craft.

Not sure I want to visit Portuguese Customs, they can be absolute barstewards.

GRAHAM to be safe, I will revisit this. They are saying that the T2L from UK will not be accepted, no surprise there, but to suggest that the invoice will be disregarded could be awkward.
I will follow through.

 

[Graham376]

GRAHAM to be safe, I will revisit this. They are saying that the T2L from UK will not be accepted, no surprise there, but to suggest that the invoice will be disregarded could be awkward. I will follow through.

I don't know about other countries but the Portuguese are usually sticklers for original documents, not photocopies, and often insist on UK documents being translated and legalised. Me thinks it's time to get DTP working.

 

[Chris_Robb]

I don't know about other countries but the Portuguese are usually sticklers for original documents, not photocopies, and often insist on UK documents being translated and legalised. Me thinks it's time to get DTP working.

It's clearly time now for me to chase the Greeks and ask what form on proof we require. I am presuming an invoice, and proof we were in EU on 31st Dec.

As well to check. At the moment, non EU flagged vessels will need a Transit Log. If you are VAT paid, that will be an UNLIMITED one, stamped where e port date normally goes. Possession of this will be 9/10 Of the law.....

 

[nortada]

It's clearly time now for me to chase the Greeks and ask what form on proof we require. I am presuming an invoice, and proof we were in EU on 31st Dec.

As well to check. At the moment, non EU flagged vessels will need a Transit Log. If you are VAT paid, that will be an UNLIMITED one, stamped where e port date normally goes. Possession of this will be 9/10 Of the law.....

A credit card receipt(bar bill?) for purchases made late on 31/12/20 and early on 1/1/21 should confirm your presence in country but where VAT is concerned, it is my understanding that it is the boat's location that is require?

In Portugal, marina continuously record all vessels in the marina and all arrivals and departures. Theses records are retained and if requested, available for scrutiny (by SEF) so there will be no doubt the location of vessels over night 31/12 - 1/1.

I assume many other EU countries (including Greece) maintain similar records.

Suppose there could be problems if you were on passage and underway on New Year's Eve.