RYA theory

[TernVI]

The metrication of charts, this new fangled Cardinal bouyage system, the magic know as GPS, radar sets that you could fit on a small boat and not need a small nuclear power station to generate power, and the way the courses are delivered with the withdrawal of local education funding for adult learning.

I think the drift from 'night school' 2 hrs a week to doing a theory course in a couple of weekends makes a big a difference.
Some things like vectors are not easy to teach to some people. If you've got a term or two to learn something, you can look elsewhere if your instructor isn't getting something across.

 

[Tomahawk]

Finest,
First welcome to yhr YBW community. There is a wealth of knowledge and wisdom on this forum. Where do you sail, (or plan to sail)?

From experience, if you are looking to start sailing, I recommend getting onto a club racing boat doing day racing to start. Let someone else pay the major bills as you learn basic things like tacking, setting the kits, reefing, mooring and knots. Racing skippers are always needing crew so if you are reliable and always turn up, you will develop a huge range of experience.

Once you have gotten your self comfortable with day sailing, look for a seat on an offshore boat doing overnight and longer races. That puts you into keeping watch in the dark. Meanwhile get a copy of the RYA competent crew handbook. it’s very short but very condensed and gives you most of your basic information such as cardinal marks, thinking about tide flow, navigation etc.

As to the actual qualifications, I gave up with the formal courses when the instructor taught is how to do a single point running fix.... Then he said it is necessary for the exam, but in fourty years of sailing he had only ever done it once and that was to see if he could do it... At that point, it became apparent that they set exams to see if you can pass exams rather than teach you to become a better sailor.. That may suit some people, but it doesn’t suit me.

 

[Birdseye]

Not reading the question properly always seems to be a problem too!

The coastal theory course has improved enormously a few years ago. Have you been involved with it at all? I haven't taught it in the classroom but it now involves six days including four assesment papers. I've helped out a little and been through the course. I reckon it's quite a step from Day Skipper .

I wonder what the figures are for take up on Essential navigation. I've only ever taught one, ages ago. Our school sold just that one and I happen to know it's not a popular online course. I'm not a fan.

Not reading the questions properly was and no doubt still is a major cause of exam failure. So is making unwarranted assumptions. Yes I taught it inb the classroom for many years. Is it a step up - yes of course it is, not least because you can fail it whereas the RYA instruction to us was that everyone who took the course seriously passed Day Skipper.

My experience of teachin YM / coastal skipper was that the onloy people who struggled with it were those who struggled with basic maths. One woman for example couldnt do the rule of twelvths unless given the tides in feet! Others really struggled with secondary ports

 

[capnsensible]

Morning. Regarding basic maths, yup, often a problem guess that's from modern schooling. Especially the ocean course with degrees and minutes when reducing sights.

Could you tell more about the RYA instruction that everyone must pass day skipper? I've never heard of that.

 

[JumbleDuck]

The metrication of charts, this new fangled Cardinal bouyage system, the magic know as GPS, radar sets that you could fit on a small boat and not need a small nuclear power station to generate power, and the way the courses are delivered with the withdrawal of local education funding for adult learning.

We had metric charts, thank you very much, and cardinal buoyage but yes, much less electronic content. Mind you, a Decca receiver wasn't really much different from a GPS as long as it did the sums - we didn't cover Decca charts.

The night school problem kicked in around 1990, when the government decided that all funded education had to lead to a qualification with credits. Nowadays the RYA could probably get the theory courses validated but validation as a concept wasn't really around then, so any evening class which didn't lead to an existing qualification was doomed.

 

[TernVI]

We had metric charts, thank you very much, and cardinal buoyage but yes, much less electronic content. Mind you, a Decca receiver wasn't really much different from a GPS as long as it did the sums - we didn't cover Decca charts.

The night school problem kicked in around 1990, when the government decided that all funded education had to lead to a qualification with credits. Nowadays the RYA could probably get the theory courses validated but validation as a concept wasn't really around then, so any evening class which didn't lead to an existing qualification was doomed.

Some nightschool YM courses have been run way more recently than 1990.
But it costs more these days. I got mine very cheaply because I was technically unemployed the day I signed up.
Not sure that still works!
I don't recall Decca or Loran when I did mine in the early 80s, but ISTR that a position line might have come from RDF?

 

[laika]

My experience of teachin YM / coastal skipper was that the onloy people who struggled with it were those who struggled with basic maths.

From the receiving (student) end this was also my experience and I took the OP's statement:

I'm pretty confident about studying theory from books in general

...to suggest a more academic inclination. Some people might appreciate a long run-up to YM/Coastal theory but I'll agree with what I think PlumDuff is saying that it isn't necessary for everyone.

I gave up with the formal courses when the instructor taught is how to do a single point running fix.... Then he said it is necessary for the exam, but in fourty years of sailing he had only ever done it once and that was to see if he could do it...

How about running fixes on the big yellow nav mark? ;-)

 

[dulls]

The metrication of charts, this new fangled Cardinal bouyage system, the magic know as GPS, radar sets that you could fit on a small boat and not need a small nuclear power station to generate power, and the way the courses are delivered with the withdrawal of local education funding for adult learning.

I should have said since the early 90s when i did my cse. Metric charts were in use then, Cardinal boys were in use then, No GPS content but some DECCA etc. No radar. I think RDF but am not sure of that and had used it before so not sure if my memory is correct.

 

[finestgreen]

Finest,
First welcome to yhr YBW community. There is a wealth of knowledge and wisdom on this forum. Where do you sail, (or plan to sail)?

From experience, if you are looking to start sailing, I recommend getting onto a club racing boat doing day racing to start. Let someone else pay the major bills as you learn basic things like tacking, setting the kits, reefing, mooring and knots. Racing skippers are always needing crew so if you are reliable and always turn up, you will develop a huge range of experience.

Once you have gotten your self comfortable with day sailing, look for a seat on an offshore boat doing overnight and longer races. That puts you into keeping watch in the dark. Meanwhile get a copy of the RYA competent crew handbook. it’s very short but very condensed and gives you most of your basic information such as cardinal marks, thinking about tide flow, navigation etc.

As to the actual qualifications, I gave up with the formal courses when the instructor taught is how to do a single point running fix.... Then he said it is necessary for the exam, but in fourty years of sailing he had only ever done it once and that was to see if he could do it... At that point, it became apparent that they set exams to see if you can pass exams rather than teach you to become a better sailor.. That may suit some people, but it doesn’t suit me.

Thanks! Interesting idea about getting on a racing crew, not something I'd thought about at all. I live near the Solent so probably mostly from there, though I have yacht charter family holidays in my mind for the future. I don't expect to buy my own boat (though of course you never know...) so I'm keen on getting the bits of paper for chartering. I'm a civil servant so will probably look at the civil service clubs, and they seem to require Coastal Skipper to charter their yachts.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Some nightschool YM courses have been run way more recently than 1990.
But it costs more these days. I got mine very cheaply because I was technically unemployed the day I signed up.

There was nothing to prevent any sort of nightschool course; it was just that subsidised ones had to lead to a qualification. At the time a fair number of the more recreational courses moved across to U3A, which was just getting going

I don't recall Decca or Loran when I did mine in the early 80s, but ISTR that a position line might have come from RDF?

Oh yes, we all played with SeaFix receivers. I'd forgotten that.

 

[Tomahawk]

How about running fixes on the big yellow nav mark? ;-)

Different type of running fix.
The one being examined was to take a sighting as approaching an landmark whilst sailing parallel to shore then sail for a time on a steady course and speed then take another sighting on the same mark. then project your track made good backwards fom the bearing to the second sight to where it bisects the bearing from the mark on the first sight.

 

[Tomahawk]

Thanks! Interesting idea about getting on a racing crew, not something I'd thought about at all. I live near the Solent so probably mostly from there, though I have yacht charter family holidays in my mind for the future. I don't expect to buy my own boat (though of course you never know...) so I'm keen on getting the bits of paper for chartering. I'm a civil servant so will probably look at the civil service clubs, and they seem to require Coastal Skipper to charter their yachts.

Racing makes you do everything and do it well. Otherwise you are nowhere. When cruising it is too easy to say, "I won't bother setting a kite as it's a bit of hard work right now"

I well recall delivering my second boat from the Hamble to Medway in late September. We had been on the water all day and approaching Dover in the dark (before GFS weather forecasts) when a nasty squall blew up. It was clear we would not make the entrance without reefing so we had to put one in. I was standing on the coachroof setting up the reefing points with rain blowing sideways and the boat pitching up and down like a bucking bronco in pitch black... and completely not phased by the situation because I had put in and taken out reefs dozens of times whilst racing.

I suspect I would have been calling out the lifeboat if I hadn't had that racing experience.

 

[laika]

Different type of running fix.

The principle is the same. Running fix from land-based marks is handy on a featureless bit of coast where you don't have multiple objects to take fixes from. If your argument was (and I apologise if I've misinterpreted) that RYA courses are a waste of time because they teach rarely used techniques I disagree: the running fix is one of the standard tools in the analogue navigator's toolbox and the one to use where you only have one object to take a fix from.

 

[glynd]

Hi; hope this is an appropriate forum for this question - I'm new to sailing and looking to progress up to completing the Coastal Skipper course reasonably quickly, and I have some questions specifically about RYA theory training.

I'm pretty confident about studying theory from books in general, would prefer to spend money on getting out on the water than sitting in the classroom, but on the other hand I can see the benefits of getting the validation of classroom training to avoid potentially falling short when committed to practical training.

So, I'm thinking of following this sequence (with some experience building interspersed as necessary)
1. Competent Crew
2. Independent self study Day Skipper theory material from books
3. Classroom course Coastal Skipper / Yachtmaster Coastal theory
4. Day Skipper Practical
5. Coastal Skipper Practical

Assuming I'd sufficiently grasped the Day Skipper theory, would it be difficult to do the Coastal Skipper classroom course with only Competent Crew level practical experience?

I'm aware there (probably!) isn't going to be a definitive answer here, just interested in your opinions and experiences. Thanks,

Try
1. Some Independent self study Day Skipper theory material from books
2. Competent Crew
3. Complete your Independent self study Day Skipper theory material from books
4. Day Skipper Practical
5. Do some actual sailing as a skipper
6. Classroom course Coastal Skipper / Yachtmaster Coastal theory
7. Coastal Skipper Practical

If you study the DS theory ahead of comp-crew you'll get more out of the comp-crew as well - as there will likely be people onboard doing their DS during your comp-crew.
There is a fair chunk of terms that need to sink in, so you can speak the sailing language

Would recommend comp crew practical ahead of DS, making sure you are familiar with the evolutions (raising / lowering sails, tacking, gybing, etc) and in particular getting comfortable with the proper names for different bits of string and where they are physically on the boat. Especially given during DS you are going to be asking other people to be performing these evolutions.

 

[capnsensible]

Thanks! Interesting idea about getting on a racing crew, not something I'd thought about at all. I live near the Solent so probably mostly from there, though I have yacht charter family holidays in my mind for the future. I don't expect to buy my own boat (though of course you never know...) so I'm keen on getting the bits of paper for chartering. I'm a civil servant so will probably look at the civil service clubs, and they seem to require Coastal Skipper to charter their yachts.

Excellent idea regarding the civil service sailing club. We used to live on the south coast and my wife sailed with them a few times on training weekends. Very cheap then.

 

[steve62]

Mmm. For people new to sailing, I've always found the competent crew course a great way of introduction to it all. Living on a boat with a few other people. Cooking, cleaning, not being seasick is just as important, I think, as knots, tacking and parts of a boat.
A n instructor is paid to help people, get them to gain confidence and see if they actually like it. I reckon that's a good first step.

I have met a few people who had passed the competent crew course . I wouldn't trust those I met to be competent with a lilo in the local swimming pool let alone on a yacht, If the OP can sail, that is a great start. If not, there are a load of smaller yachts that are sailed solo where the owner/helm would be more than happy to take crews out for a sail either cruising or racing.

 

[FlyingGoose]

i have done Day skippers online and found if interesting and challenging enough that could learn with the web and the books , I then did my coastal yachtmaster theory online, it takes from the Day Skippers and adds more with weather and more planning if you were confident enough with the DS Theory then the Jump is not to strenuous . I found online perfect for my learning curve others will learn different there is no right or wrong but what is your learning aspect
I have not done any practical as I have been on the sea since I can remember, but the courses helped greatly wIth navigation , rules, and many other aspects of sailing that I think many out there need to learn . IMHO OFC

 

[duncan99210]

When my wife was approaching a significant birthday, she suggested doing a sailing course for her birthday. We decided to do CC followed by DS in Corfu. That worked very well for us, so well that we decided to by a boat and live on aboard for the next 6 years. I can recommend that as a way to get the basics well locked in but there’s a caveat.
Both of us are divers and had done a fair bit of navigation and small boat handling before we did the courses, so the theory was already there albeit from a powerboat perspective. The struggle (if any) was adjusting to using the wind and the much reduced power to weight ratios of a sailing boat.
So, I’d suggest a modified version of the programme:
Some book learning towards DS theory.
Do back to back CC and DS courses (possibly somewhere warm....)
Get some sea time in with a club or mates.
Decide if you really need to take it any further (I haven’t....)
If you do need to go further, do the theory course and then the practical course.
Job done.

 

[sgr143]

Thanks! Interesting idea about getting on a racing crew, not something I'd thought about at all. I live near the Solent so probably mostly from there, though I have yacht charter family holidays in my mind for the future. I don't expect to buy my own boat (though of course you never know...) so I'm keen on getting the bits of paper for chartering. I'm a civil servant so will probably look at the civil service clubs, and they seem to require Coastal Skipper to charter their yachts.

FinestGreen - very useful to know, as advice on the best route forward needs to take into account whether you have a boat, plan to buy a boat, are keen on racing or not, etc.

My own route in was via dinghy sailing (after a crash put paid to my gliding "career"), which was fun for a while and still is if I take a boat out for the day in the Lake District or similar; but I'm not at all interested in racing, and the limitations of dinghys for "journeys" made themselves felt (I am not Frank Dye!) . I found I was allowed to sail as an alumnus with the Cambridge University YC, went for a week with them around Orkney and loved it. More sailing with CUYC, along with doing day skipper and coastal skipper courses (at centres in the Solent and in Scotland), then a family flotilla holiday in Greece. This encouraged my wife to do a CC course, and finally we took the plunge and bought our own boat.

For me, a really big step was being The Skipper for the very first time with nobody more experienced on board; that was in Greece. It turned out fine: the sailing was easy, the decisions as to destinations and timings were made by the flotilla leaders, and the mooring-up manoeuvres were guided and assisted by them. Everyone had a great time. I'd strongly recommend something like that when you have the day-skipper, which is all that most of the flotilla companies ask for. The next big step for us was when we cast off our new-to-us boat for the first time; it was just to motor down the harbour to get fuel and back; but as we let go from the pontoon there was a real "the die is cast" feeling.

The RYA courses are really useful, especially if you do the theory and practical courses closely together; they each reinforce each other. Getting time on boats as crew is well worth doing, before and between courses; maybe the civil service clubs would provide a route for doing that? What it is quite hard to get enough practice at on courses and as crew is close-quarter manoeuvring, mooring up and un-mooring. There's never enough time on the courses for everyone to have more than a few goes at these; and if you're crew on someone else's boat, they're understandably reluctant to let you do the tricky stuff!

Good luck - enjoy it (otherwise, what's the point?!). Learning is fun. learning sailing doubly so.

Steve

 

[TernVI]

Thanks! Interesting idea about getting on a racing crew, not something I'd thought about at all. I live near the Solent so probably mostly from there, though I have yacht charter family holidays in my mind for the future. I don't expect to buy my own boat (though of course you never know...) so I'm keen on getting the bits of paper for chartering. I'm a civil servant so will probably look at the civil service clubs, and they seem to require Coastal Skipper to charter their yachts.

Definitely look at the CS clubs for sailing opportunities.
Racing can be a good call, as you can get some sailing in the Autumn and Winter/Spring, and you learn a lot in short, intensive races, not taking up the whole weekend.
A club that puts you intouch with people to either share a charter or crew their yachts can be an economic way of sailing.