Riverside land?

[AP3]

Hi All,

Following on from my post about moorings, I had what is probably a crazy idea, but I thought I'd air it anyway.

Has anyone (sucessfully) bough riverside land for a base mooring? I'm not talking about a huge plot, just a small stretch of riverbank with enough space to install mooring bollards, and maybe a fence for security.

Perhaps I'm crazy, but there are lots of farmers fields that run by the Thames, and I don't suppose a lot of them really want the riverbank..?

You might actually make some money if the value of the land goes up, rather than paying quite a lot of money just to rent a space.

Cheers,
Andy

 

[thamesS23]

there is a woman in Windsor who owns quite a bit of land by the river, could always try her..

..think her name is Liz or Elizabeth something !!

 

[AP3]

there is a woman in Windsor who owns quite a bit of land by the river, could always try her..

..think her name is Liz or Elizabeth something !!

I tried her, but she said to speak to her son Harry, and he's apparently out of the country for quite a while....

 

[Portland Billy]

The problem with a remote river bank mooring is access and security. Also to consider is the river itself - red boards for the past few weeks!
It may also impact on insurance premiums.

 

[Old Crusty]

Hi All,

Following on from my post about moorings, I had what is probably a crazy idea, but I thought I'd air it anyway.

Has anyone (sucessfully) bough riverside land for a base mooring? I'm not talking about a huge plot, just a small stretch of riverbank with enough space to install mooring bollards, and maybe a fence for security.

Perhaps I'm crazy, but there are lots of farmers fields that run by the Thames, and I don't suppose a lot of them really want the riverbank..?

You might actually make some money if the value of the land goes up, rather than paying quite a lot of money just to rent a space.

Cheers,
Andy

In the unlikely event you find a farmer or other riparian owner with a parcel of riverbank land to sell, you'll be needing an access agreement that will include an annual fee to permit you to actually get to the said parcel of riverbank - that can be withdrawn at any time thus rendering your plot inaccessible. Above Staines (upon Thames) Bridge, riparian owners also own the river bed to the mid point of the river. Recommend you just suck up the cost like the rest of us and get a berth in a marina or tie up to a tree on the towpath..

 

[AP3]

In the unlikely event you find a farmer or other riparian owner with a parcel of riverbank land to sell, you'll be needing an access agreement that will include an annual fee to permit you to actually get to the said parcel of riverbank - that can be withdrawn at any time thus rendering your plot inaccessible. Above Staines (upon Thames) Bridge, riparian owners also own the river bed to the mid point of the river. Recommend you just suck up the cost like the rest of us and get a berth in a marina or tie up to a tree on the towpath..

Some of the land which I, perhaps in a bohemian dream, have considered whilst lying in bed at night, is along a footpath, which is a public right of way. (Bourne End, near the Spade Oak)

Obviously there's no vehicular access, but that wouldn't be a problem.

I'll admit, as originally stated, that this is perhaps a pipe dream, although I did find a parcel of land nearby, but not near enough for me, in Wargrave. Not cheap though, perhaps someone else here has the cash! Check out this land on Rightmove!

I'm not sure I'd rule the idea out though. Riverside land is plentiful as you'll all know from boating past it all!

Cheers,
Andy

 

[Outinthedinghy]

Some of the land which I, perhaps in a bohemian dream, have considered whilst lying in bed at night, is along a footpath, which is a public right of way. (Bourne End, near the Spade Oak)

Obviously there's no vehicular access, but that wouldn't be a problem.

I'll admit, as originally stated, that this is perhaps a pipe dream, although I did find a parcel of land nearby, but not near enough for me, in Wargrave. Not cheap though, perhaps someone else here has the cash! Check out this land on Rightmove!

I'm not sure I'd rule the idea out though. Riverside land is plentiful as you'll all know from boating past it all!

Cheers,
Andy

A lot of the land around there is owned by the Copas family I really doubt they would entertain the idea of selling small plots.

Not sure if they own the bit between spade oak and the islands at Cookham Dean but it seems probable. They certainly own the field between the NT cock marsh land and the sailing club at Cookham. And extensive Riverside land around Medmenham and Remenham.

As for the land for sale at wargrave marshes it is ridiculously expensive and no privacy on the Riverside due to the path. The reason for the high price is the development potential.

Freehold plots do turn up there were a couple at Reading immediately above better boating last year about £170k for a 60ft private mooring which isn't too terrible. But not a very pleasant location it depends what you want.

The stretch between porthampton island and sunbury lock is interesting as it seems to be subject to an adverse possession claim firstly by the EA and also by individual boat owners who have been occupying the land for over a decade and have fenced off individual plots.

I did see a boat on a little fenced off plot on the left below Gatehampton railway bridge not sure what the deal was there but it was a proper wooden fence not a bodge up.

The other approach is to find a spot and just stay there see what happens and get into dialogue with the land owner about it.

 

[oldgit]

Picture this. just imagine .
A really nice bit of bank perhaps one of the most scenic and secluded on the river , all its ancient wooded banks still intact due to it not being physically big enough to remove trees and turn in to grazing or orchards etc.
Used mainly by walkers and fishermen.
About 1/2 mile of a narrow strip of the land comes up for sale and is bought by a chap living not in UK.
He immediately sells off the land in small plots to make it almost impossible for local council to take action.
It is sold as leisure plots. It is virtually impossible to get access to the plot unless via public footpath.
With a very short space of time an old steel lighter is installed using scaffold poles as mooring stakes. It sinks and now lies abandoned.It was sold twice.
Within short time a second plot is sold and another boat appears, moored once again with a scaffold pole landing stage followed by the owner digging up the river bank and turning into a vegetable garden which is then fenced off because a right of way footpath goes right through it.A gazebo and other garden stuff appears.
The owner then manages to get a 4 x 4 through a foot tunnel under a nearbye railway line and destroys more vegetation to smash a path for his 4 x 4 from the public road to his plot.
The council finally catch on about 2 years later and get a prevention of development order which also requires him to remove any and all structures.

The chap who started this nightmare has previous form when a lot of other gullible punters got stitched up buying "leisure plots" with "moorings.."
The local council again eventually ordered the removal of all the fences/sheds/caravans and other structures which infested the sight.
Most sheds were merely abandoned and left to fall down.The vegetation taking over once again.

 

[Outinthedinghy]

Picture this. just imagine .
A really nice bit of bank perhaps one of the most scenic and secluded on the river , all its ancient wooded banks still intact due to it not being physically big enough to remove trees and turn in to grazing or orchards etc.
Used mainly by walkers and fishermen.
About 1/2 mile of a narrow strip of the land comes up for sale and is bought by a chap living not in UK.
He immediately sells off the land in small plots to make it almost impossible for local council to take action.
It is sold as leisure plots. It is virtually impossible to get access to the plot unless via public footpath.
With a very short space of time an old steel lighter is installed using scaffold poles as mooring stakes. It sinks and now lies abandoned.It was sold twice.
Within short time a second plot is sold and another boat appears, moored once again with a scaffold pole landing stage followed by the owner digging up the river bank and turning into a vegetable garden which is then fenced off because a right of way footpath goes right through it.A gazebo and other garden stuff appears.
The owner then manages to get a 4 x 4 through a foot tunnel under a nearbye railway line and destroys more vegetation to smash a path for his 4 x 4 from the public road to his plot.
The council finally catch on about 2 years later and get a prevention of development order which also requires him to remove any and all structures.

The chap who started this nightmare has previous form when a lot of other gullible punters got stitched up buying "leisure plots" with "moorings.."
The local council again eventually ordered the removal of all the fences/sheds/caravans and other structures which infested the sight.
Most sheds were merely abandoned and left to fall down.The vegetation taking over once again.

When I went and had a look down there the Riverside path was tarmacked and there were quite a few well advanced mooring developments. A bit of a village in fact.

Has this changed?

Can't remember the exact details but the access road has an unusual name.

ETA Unicumes. That's it. Unicumes Lane.

 

[TrueBlue]

Fascinating knowledge from a forum member -- Oldgit - whoops he's not from these parts.
Aha! I see (thank you google) Unicumes Lane is in the Maidstone area.

Have a care Thames boaters - Maidstone today - Reading tomorrow.....

 

[oldgit]

When I went and had a look down there the Riverside path was tarmacked and there were quite a few well advanced mooring developments. A bit of a village in fact.

Has this changed?

Can't remember the exact details but the access road has an unusual name.

ETA Unicumes. That's it. Unicumes Lane.

EA are responsible for the navigable Medway above Allington and local authorities enforce bylaws below the lock .
No matter who you are (even if the owner) you cannot construct or build landing stages including driving piles or erect any fence, structure or building without permission of the relevant authorities.

This was first "leisure plot" site at Halling just south of Rochester.

Unfortunately when nothing was done to stop the first buyer of a plot, subsequent buyers just piled in and added insult to injury.
The sunken lighter is still there at Tovil sticking out into the river , secured by chains round a few trees. Not sure if the livaboard with the destructive 4 x 4 is still moored there after the court order told him to remove all his junk.
A smaller cruiser moored to some scaffolding did eventually sink. Not sure what happened to the boat or the structure it was moored to.

Plots are still being advertised for sale. Despite enforcement against existing owners.

file:///C:/Users/ONESTO~1/AppData/Local/Temp/FOI-5528-Response-Planning-Enforcement-Information-Unicumes-Lane-3.pdf
There are now forty identified plots in Unicumes Lane River bank moorings. Maidstone Borough Council has issued Enforcement Notices to all these. Plots 12 to 30 have enforcement orders on them which can be tracked online
file:///C:/Users/ONESTO~1/AppData/Local/Temp/Enforcement%20Case%20Tracker%2025.07.2019.pdf

Note the nice collection of domestic appliances on the shore at Halling ..... and with the added healthy aroma of old sofa and tyres bonfire..whats not to like

 

[Outinthedinghy]

That's interesting. I was a bit surprised by the scale of it. I visited the site with the lighter (regents canal barge). This was a few years ago now and at that time it was highly developed.

 

[oldgit]

Tovil.
Unicumes Lane.
This was the last picture taken as we went past some time ago.

Another boat moored moored just downstream before the owner constructed a landing stage then dug the adjacent river bank to make a vegetable garden.The fences and other stuff followed including getting the 4 x 4 packed nearbye.

 

[AuntyRinum]

... I did find a parcel of land nearby, but not near enough for me, in Wargrave. Not cheap though, perhaps someone else here has the cash! Check out this land on Rightmove! ...

I looked at that piece of land last summer. The agents were punting it for £300,000 and thought that planning permission would be unlikely.
A fantastic proposition for a multi multi millionaire who wants somewhere nice to have an occasional picnic. The mooring rights were not guaranteed either.

 

[oldgit]

I looked at that piece of land last summer. The agents were punting it for £300,000 and thought that planning permission would be unlikely.
A fantastic proposition for a multi multi millionaire who wants somewhere nice to have an occasional picnic. The mooring rights were not guaranteed either.

What is a paragraph 79 house. ?

 

[AP3]

I looked at that piece of land last summer. The agents were punting it for £300,000 and thought that planning permission would be unlikely.
A fantastic proposition for a multi multi millionaire who wants somewhere nice to have an occasional picnic. The mooring rights were not guaranteed either.

Surely you'd have ownership of the river bank, and riperian rights to (half) the river bed? I know an EA license would be necessary to build out into the river, but putting some bollards on the bank and mooring to them is surely a no-brainer?

 

[Chris_d]

Surely you'd have ownership of the river bank, and riperian rights to (half) the river bed? I know an EA license would be necessary to build out into the river, but putting some bollards on the bank and mooring to them is surely a no-brainer?

Not sure that bit of land has any frontage at all, it backs onto the 24r moorings so has the towpath between it and the river. There is a photo of the nearby Hennerton backwater with a boat moored but it doesn't appear to be on that from the plan.
Paragraph 79 is:

“truly outstanding or innovative, reflecting the highest standards in architecture, and would help to raise standards of design more generally in rural areas”​

 

[oldgit]

Surely you'd have ownership of the river bank, and riperian rights to (half) the river bed? I know an EA license would be necessary to build out into the river, but putting some bollards on the bank and mooring to them is surely a no-brainer?

" all" you need is permission to do so, suspect if you are chairman of the local Parish council a member of CPRE and the your surname appeared in the Domesday book as the knight who stole the land from its orignal saxon owner you just might get the OK to pop in a couple of mooring pegs for your slipper launch.
A recent lottery winner from Jaywick or anywhere in Essex really with a Sealine might not be so fortunate ?

 

[Outinthedinghy]

Not sure that bit of land has any frontage at all, it backs onto the 24r moorings so has the towpath between it and the river. There is a photo of the nearby Hennerton backwater with a boat moored but it doesn't appear to be on that from the plan.
Paragraph 79 is:
“truly outstanding or innovative, reflecting the highest standards in architecture, and would help to raise standards of design more generally in rural areas”

I know the site well. I don't believe there actually are "24hr moorings" on that bit. There is an old TC / Thames water signed mooring site very close upstream but I get the impression that the rest of the land from there down to the hennerton backwater is privately owned by several different riparian owners who do own the land and also the river bed to half way across as stated further up the thread. Riparian ownership upstream of the London stone at Staines. Presumably this dates back to the situation with Staines being the limit of the tidal Thames at some point.

There seems to be a footpath there but it would need investigating to find out if it is a right of way. It seems to have previously been access for a ferry which is no longer present. There is some Thames water hardware ie a gate further down near the backwater which would imply default EA land ownership but when I was there last summer the path was overgrown and not useable making me think it is not a maintained public footpath.

Quite an interesting bit of the River. Wargrave marshes.