sailor0500
New member
Has anyone had problems with Customs or Douaniers regarding Safety regs in France.ie liferaft service intervals.Flarepacks etc
French safety regulations
- Thread starter sailor0500
- Start date
Cloven
Active member
Flares must be carried and must be in date (no out of date flares must be carried at all) and be appropriate to the cruising area - ie distance from coast.
There is no requirement to carry a liferaft but if you do it must be serviced and not more than 13 years old - apparently that is the max age that the liferaft is considered viable. Also flares within liferaft must be in date although that would constitute part of the service.
This is the situation as I understand it but there have been some changes recently about which flares must be carried is you also have a VHF/DSC radio and are not more than 6nm from a safe haven.
You can be fined if you do not meet these requirements
Hope this helps
There is no requirement to carry a liferaft but if you do it must be serviced and not more than 13 years old - apparently that is the max age that the liferaft is considered viable. Also flares within liferaft must be in date although that would constitute part of the service.
This is the situation as I understand it but there have been some changes recently about which flares must be carried is you also have a VHF/DSC radio and are not more than 6nm from a safe haven.
You can be fined if you do not meet these requirements
Hope this helps
samwise
New member
As I understand it, liferafts purchased in France must be serviced every year and ( as you say) dumped after 12 years regardless of condition. UK rules call for a three year service interval and we were advised that this would apply to the UK bought raft we used on our three year Med and back trip. Not sure if that applies to a yacht permanently berthed outside UK.
I do know that the French authorities can be tough on out of date flares and out of date fire extinguishers.
I do know that the French authorities can be tough on out of date flares and out of date fire extinguishers.
achwilan
New member
No, current regulations (liferafts after 2006) are 15 years life and 3 years service (professional use: service each year)
gianenrico
Member
BUT: are You referring to a foreign-flagged boat in french waters OR to a french-flag-flying boat in french waters?
Cheers! /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
Cheers! /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
westernman
Well-known member
No flares are required if you have a DSC radio with the red distress button.
matelot
New member
[ QUOTE ]
BUT: are You referring to a foreign-flagged boat in french waters OR to a french-flag-flying boat in french waters?
Cheers! /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
[/ QUOTE ]
applies to any boat the douainiers chose to apply it to.
BUT: are You referring to a foreign-flagged boat in french waters OR to a french-flag-flying boat in french waters?
Cheers! /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
[/ QUOTE ]
applies to any boat the douainiers chose to apply it to.
Searush
New member
"French safety regulations"?
Surely this is an oxymoron?
Surely this is an oxymoron?
gianenrico
Member
Sorry, but can't agree on that: IF a boat is registered in UK or,say, Italy it has to respect, IMHO, the flag-implied regulations concerning safety equipment and licenses (we are speaking of pleasure crafts, NOT chartering boats): so the boats should have what UK or Italian law prescribes and the Douaniers cannot object to them not corresponding to French rules. This comes from many years of country-hopping between Italy and France on italian flagged boats.
So, if in UK VHF DSC IS NOT mandatory, why and how any French Authority could pretend an SSR boat should have one?
Cheers
So, if in UK VHF DSC IS NOT mandatory, why and how any French Authority could pretend an SSR boat should have one?
Cheers
sailorman
Well-known member
there should be room 4 Leeway here /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
gavin_lacey
New member
If I remember correctly a British flag boat was given an on the spot fine in France for carrying out of date flares (in addition to in date ones) a year or so ago. After representation the fine was rescinded, or was supposed to have been. British boats have to comply to British regulations. Most European countries have regulations for both boats and skippers that are hugely more onerous than Britain. Compulsory qualifications and MOT type testing for boats.
Drascomber
New member
[ QUOTE ]
There is no requirement to carry a liferaft
[/ QUOTE ]
Disagree. More than 6 miles out this is a requirement
See here - look for "French Rules OK" (about 14th on the list of articles)
French Rules
BUT
Whilst the French cannot apply their regulations to a British flagged boat in international waters, they can in their territorial waters.
However, they will normally not interfere with a foreign (e.g. UK) registered boat unless it is brought to their attention e.g. by navigating in a reckless manner or in an unseaworthy boat.
The question was "Has anyone actually had a problem with the French"
Apart from reports that have turned out to be hearsay or myths I have not heard any direct reports of any problems. If anyone has please post 'cos I should like to hear about them too.
There is no requirement to carry a liferaft
[/ QUOTE ]
Disagree. More than 6 miles out this is a requirement
See here - look for "French Rules OK" (about 14th on the list of articles)
French Rules
BUT
Whilst the French cannot apply their regulations to a British flagged boat in international waters, they can in their territorial waters.
However, they will normally not interfere with a foreign (e.g. UK) registered boat unless it is brought to their attention e.g. by navigating in a reckless manner or in an unseaworthy boat.
The question was "Has anyone actually had a problem with the French"
Apart from reports that have turned out to be hearsay or myths I have not heard any direct reports of any problems. If anyone has please post 'cos I should like to hear about them too.
charles_reed
Active member
The douaniers
have the authority to levy on-the-spot fines.
A % of this is divvied up for the local office to share and a list of how various offices are doing, available on the central computer at Toulouse.
This makes them significantly alert to any actual or perceived infringements of French regulations.
Stories abound of English boats fined for not having a photograph of the boat on their SSR or other documentation (in fact I have seen a Netherlands boat fined for only having NederLloyds registration, in la Rochelle).
Usually, if challenged at a higher level, these fines will be rescinded (I had one repaid, less an admin fee in le Carteret for not being able to produce the ship's papers when asked).
Unlike UK law you are considered guilty until you prove yourself innocent.
have the authority to levy on-the-spot fines.
A % of this is divvied up for the local office to share and a list of how various offices are doing, available on the central computer at Toulouse.
This makes them significantly alert to any actual or perceived infringements of French regulations.
Stories abound of English boats fined for not having a photograph of the boat on their SSR or other documentation (in fact I have seen a Netherlands boat fined for only having NederLloyds registration, in la Rochelle).
Usually, if challenged at a higher level, these fines will be rescinded (I had one repaid, less an admin fee in le Carteret for not being able to produce the ship's papers when asked).
Unlike UK law you are considered guilty until you prove yourself innocent.
gianenrico
Member
Sorry again, I quote from the Drascomber's /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif site:
"In the first place, it is right to state that these rules apply to boats registered in France, that's to say under the French flag. The rules set out in the table that has been sent to me contain a certain number of errors. For foreign boats, it’s the equipment demanded by their "flag state" that is required. "
"In the first place, it is right to state that these rules apply to boats registered in France, that's to say under the French flag. The rules set out in the table that has been sent to me contain a certain number of errors. For foreign boats, it’s the equipment demanded by their "flag state" that is required. "
matelot
New member
nice theory gianenrico, and no doubt if you are willing and ables to chase an appeal up through the french legal system as far as is necessary, you may well be right. but if you are in a small french port on your way to somewhere and you get an on the spot fine for out of date flares, are you really going to stay there for a month or so to fight it? And have all your docs gone through with with fine tooth comb? And accumulate mounting mooring bills? or are you going to say sorry sire and get some new flares?
Well maybe you would do so but most people wont. So as I said at first, the french law applies to any boat the douainiers applies it to.
Well maybe you would do so but most people wont. So as I said at first, the french law applies to any boat the douainiers applies it to.
tabernacleman
New member
I think there is international agreement between nations regarding vessels which are 'passing through' a state's territory, that the vessel should comply with its 'flagged state' requirement. The authorities on the ground ie in France the Douanne, have to make a decision as to whether you are (a)passing through, (b) temporarily visiting and exploring or (c)based in the foreign country temporarily (d) based permanently. I do not think there is any legal definition of any of these conditions, so I would suggest not to draw attention to yourself, keep your log up to date to include in passage plan your final destination, and try to comply if you are a long term visitor because if you have the boat name on your dodgers the Douanne will SEE YOU on a regular basis and eventually pay you a visit, be nice to them and smile. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Tranona
Well-known member
This is all well covered by the RYA - most recently in the autumn magazine pages 17-19.
No, the French cannot "fine" you for having out of date flares. If your boat is UK registered then they cannot insist on any specific equipment because your the requirements are set by the flag state (ie the British register. The only offence they can fine you for is failing to produce your documentation - and this applies equally to French boats.
I don't know about these so called cases of British boats having trouble in this area, but I suspect the boats in question may not have had their papers in order, in which case the French (or any other foreign state if you are in their territorial waters) can seek to impose their state registration requirements on your boat.
The international legal framework is the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) and the RYA guidance on taking your boat abroad gives practical advice on how it affects you.
This does not mean that local officials may "try it on", but if you are clear about your rights you should not have problems Thousands of British yachtsmen travel all over the world and never have any problems.
No, the French cannot "fine" you for having out of date flares. If your boat is UK registered then they cannot insist on any specific equipment because your the requirements are set by the flag state (ie the British register. The only offence they can fine you for is failing to produce your documentation - and this applies equally to French boats.
I don't know about these so called cases of British boats having trouble in this area, but I suspect the boats in question may not have had their papers in order, in which case the French (or any other foreign state if you are in their territorial waters) can seek to impose their state registration requirements on your boat.
The international legal framework is the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) and the RYA guidance on taking your boat abroad gives practical advice on how it affects you.
This does not mean that local officials may "try it on", but if you are clear about your rights you should not have problems Thousands of British yachtsmen travel all over the world and never have any problems.
gianenrico
Member
Quote!!
Tranona
Well-known member
What do you want me to quote? The RYA article covers the key facts. There is nothing new or clever about the situation.
The requirements for equipment etc on your boat is purely a matter for the Flag State under which your boat is registered. In the UK for a private boat there are no legal requirements for any specific equipment.
All Coastal States that you visit allow you to operate in their territorial waters freely without any requirement to meet their registration requirements provided you can demonstrate your flag of registry. For a British Ship this is either Part 1 or Part 3 (SSR) and flying the Red Ensign when in foreign territorial waters.
Exactly the same applies if you visit the UK in an Italian registered ship. You do not have to meet any UK registration requirements provided your registration documents are in order.
How could it ever be otherwise? This applies to commercial as well as leisure craft. If it did not how would ships move freely in and out of ports?
About 3 months ago there was a long thread on the subject that ran to over 150 posts which you may be able to find. It includes references to all the international conventions and the UK legislation.
The requirements for equipment etc on your boat is purely a matter for the Flag State under which your boat is registered. In the UK for a private boat there are no legal requirements for any specific equipment.
All Coastal States that you visit allow you to operate in their territorial waters freely without any requirement to meet their registration requirements provided you can demonstrate your flag of registry. For a British Ship this is either Part 1 or Part 3 (SSR) and flying the Red Ensign when in foreign territorial waters.
Exactly the same applies if you visit the UK in an Italian registered ship. You do not have to meet any UK registration requirements provided your registration documents are in order.
How could it ever be otherwise? This applies to commercial as well as leisure craft. If it did not how would ships move freely in and out of ports?
About 3 months ago there was a long thread on the subject that ran to over 150 posts which you may be able to find. It includes references to all the international conventions and the UK legislation.
Tranona
Well-known member
Just read your earlier posts. We seem to be in agreement. It is others that seem to have the wrong end of the stick!
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