Engine Oil Change

[John100156]

Use the boat of course under load is the best but a cold start is the case every time we start our engines! Sufficient oil on surfaces to cope IMO even after a month or two sufficient for the split second it takes for the HP oil pump to circulate. I just don't buy the additional wear argument.

I will definitely run mine up to temp at every visit, and take it out whenever I can - more oil in circulation coating surfaces regularly the better IMHO....!

 

[TNLI]

I have always changed my engine oil every year, but this year due to the situation and a few family issues I will have only run about 20 hrs. I would appreciate forum members thoughts, change the oil or leave it for next season.

Old engine oil gets acidic and it is that fact in combination with degradation of the oil filter O ring that results in the recommended change every year, in addition to an hours limit. 20 hours is not much, so I would leave it until next year, but not any longer.

Changing engine oil and filter too ften increases rather than reduces wear. The reason is that the detergents additives included in the oil are far too active when the oil is new and remove some of the protective Zinc layer befor a new layer is baked back on. The other factor is that the paper element oil filters all have a random pattern of small holes, so when new let too much debris through. Once the engine has clocked up a few dozern hours the debris in the oil will have blocked up some of the larger holes increasing the filters efficiency.

If you want to know when to change the oil and a lot about the condition of the main block, try doing an annual used oil analysis with a sensible lab. That will cost about 30 dollars including postage to the lab. They e mail the result.
The report attached is not a good one, as the Lead figure is 8 times normal, and the only bearings with lead in them are the mains. They were real bad!

The oil itself was a rather cheap and nasty one, as the figure for Calcium, (Detergent), is half of what it should be. I was pleased no fuel could be detected, as that means the injectors and HP pump are good.

 

[TNLI]

I have always changed my engine oil every year, but this year due to the situation and a few family issues I will have only run about 20 hrs. I would appreciate forum members thoughts, change the oil or leave it for next season.

Old engine oil turns acidic, so should be changed as that can cause some corrosion to the block, even though the engine is not run, BUT 20 hrs is not enough to use up the detergents in an oil and turn it acidic, so I would not change it. Most modern oils are perfectly OK for 2 years plus, BUT the seal for the oil filter can degrade after that time period, so 2 years max before changing oil and filter.

Most diesels should be run for a few minutes every month to circulate the oil, and push fuel through the injection system. If you don't run an engine for a long time, the injectors tips will start corroding, and if its not run for say more than 5 years, the rings get stuck, so will need oiling before start.

 

[Hot Property]

It's useful to see what brands of engine oil people have used and found no issues .

I did use shell Rimula RT4X in the past .
Recent years used Smith and Allen and considering Exol and Mannoll brands.

My new Honda BF100 recommends Honda oils of course.

However, the user manual states that any oil compatible with API SG, SH, SJ, or SL may be used.

SG and SH are obselete and most fully synthetic oils are now SN so I think Honda aren't really fussed about oil specifications. The grade is presumably more critical.

I use Asda fully synthetic API SN ( £26 for 5 litres) Vs Honda " ordinary API SJ" oil at £60.... ( A 2001 era specification.)!

 

[TNLI]

My new Honda BF100 recommends Honda oils of course.

However, the user manual states that any oil compatible with API SG, SH, SJ, or SL may be used.

SG and SH are obselete and most fully synthetic oils are now SN so I think Honda aren't really fussed about oil specifications. The grade is presumably more critical.

I use Asda fully synthetic API SN ( £26 for 5 litres) Vs Honda " ordinary API SJ" oil at £60.... ( A 2001 era specification.)!

You will find you get what you pay for with engine oil, and if you want to reduce the wear factors it's essential to use an oil made by one of the major brand oil companies that actually do produce an oil that matches the API, or Acea specifications. So that means buying an oil made by Castrol, Mobil, Shell or Liqui Moly in the UK, as they are the main 4 oil companies. Supermarket oil has a bad reputation for missing or low additives that should have been included.

It's worth checking if the oil you use is in fact in limits, as some are not:
HEAVY DUTY DIESEL ENGINE OIL | The Petroleum Quality Institute of America (pqia.org)
They publish a list of oils that fail the tests :
CONSUMER ADVISORIES AND ALERTS | The Petroleum Quality Institute of America (pqia.org)

 

[Hot Property]

You will find you get what you pay for with engine oil, and if you want to reduce the wear factors it's essential to use an oil made by one of the major brand oil companies that actually do produce an oil that matches the API, or Acea specifications. So that means buying an oil made by Castrol, Mobil, Shell or Liqui Moly in the UK, as they are the main 4 oil companies. Supermarket oil has a bad reputation for missing or low additives that should have been included.

It's worth checking if the oil you use is in fact in limits, as some are not:
HEAVY DUTY DIESEL ENGINE OIL | The Petroleum Quality Institute of America (pqia.org)
They publish a list of oils that fail the tests :
CONSUMER ADVISORIES AND ALERTS | The Petroleum Quality Institute of America (pqia.org)

In this case that's incorrect.

Honda oil is API SJ standard which was introduced in 2001.

Asda oil is API SN introduced in 2020 - it's also fully synthetic which for an engine that has a WOT of 6,300 rpm is ideal.

It maybe that Asda buy oil from one of the 4 you mention but standards are standards.....

 

[Portofino]

In this case that's incorrect.

Honda oil is API SJ standard which was introduced in 2001.

Asda oil is API SN introduced in 2020 - it's also fully synthetic which for an engine that has a WOT of 6,300 rpm is ideal.

It maybe that Asda buy oil from one of the 4 you mention but standards are standards.....

Is it best to buy lubricants with the endorsement of the manufacturer?
Ie somewhere on the container “Honda ( insert code ) “ as well as VW , Merc , Ford or what ever ?

 

[Hot Property]

Is it best to buy lubricants with the endorsement of the manufacturer?
Ie somewhere on the container “Honda ( insert code ) “ as well as VW , Merc , Ford or what ever ?

I think not - as long as the specifications match or exceed the manufactures standards.

It's two part selling - think Hoover and bags, water filters and the filters. Rolls Royce and aircraft engines etc. Its a good earner, and they will rely on a large % of their customers fear that if they don't use it the world will end!

The Honda oil spec is decidely low quality - a 22 year old standard for a high revving VTEC engines.

 

[Fire99]

No not oil - always researched the type of oil to use - in my previous TAMD63's I used Shell Rimula R3X (now R4X I think) which really was excellent.

I now use Exol Marine 123 in my Cat's, once again following some research and discussions with other 'Forumites' I have more confidence selecting different oils than I do selecting non-OEM filters for some inexplicable reason but very happy indeed to know who makes them for Cat and if the same quality filters can be obtained cheaper. No doubt they just re-badge for the Cat engines in trucks and the like, but unless I can be sure I would stick to OEM.

That's my thinking anyway, always open to suggestions.....

Yup, my current take is that on my Caterpillars I use their Advanced filters (Oil and Fuel) and not any aftermarket ones, due to some interesting interviews from a US based CAT truck engineer (Adept Ape). Engine oil I just ensure the oil I buy is above the 'recommended' API grade that CAT recommend in their engine manual. I think they recommend CH4 minimum and my oil meets that.

Regarding changing intervals, modern oils are pretty advanced so if you've done minimal hours (particularly not many cold starts) and the oil looks in great condition I can't see an issue of keeping it for an extra season.

 

[TNLI]

In this case that's incorrect.

Honda oil is API SJ standard which was introduced in 2001.

Asda oil is API SN introduced in 2020 - it's also fully synthetic which for an engine that has a WOT of 6,300 rpm is ideal.

It maybe that Asda buy oil from one of the 4 you mention but standards are standards.....

Alas you have no way of proving an oil sold by a supermarket is in fact what it says on the label. None of the major brands have been found guilty of supplying an oil that was out of specification, apart from one minor out of limits incident with Castrol, that would not have resulted in any extra wear.

The API can't keep up in terms of cross checking all the own label oils to see if what it says on the can is in fact true. Most of the major brand oils exceeed the required additive levels by a good margin, so are normally better than the minimum required.

Unfortunately users just belive what is on the label, and as a person who has been responsible for selecting oils to use in expensive engines, I'm used to looking at reports from an oil analysis lab of the actual contents of an engine oil, and I was very surprised at how many cheap supermarket oils were outside the specification written on the can. So you will get what you pay for in most cases.

 

[Hot Property]

Alas you have no way of proving an oil sold by a supermarket is in fact what it says on the label. None of the major brands have been found guilty of supplying an oil that was out of specification, apart from one minor out of limits incident with Castrol, that would not have resulted in any extra wear.

The API can't keep up in terms of cross checking all the own label oils to see if what it says on the can is in fact true. Most of the major brand oils exceeed the required additive levels by a good margin, so are normally better than the minimum required.

Unfortunately users just belive what is on the label, and as a person who has been responsible for selecting oils to use in expensive engines, I'm used to looking at reports from an oil analysis lab of the actual contents of an engine oil, and I was very surprised at how many cheap supermarket oils were outside the specification written on the can. So you will get what you pay for in most cases.

We're going to have to agree to disagree on this one I think.

You are not suggesting that Asda are fiddling their labels to show an API rating in order to sell oil are you?

The minimum required by Honda is API SJ - the API SN is a cumulative improvement over 22 years. So if it "only" reaches API SN then thats OK by me!

 

[ChromeDome]

The manufacturers specify the requirements and if they could, they would make the warranty conditional on using only their own brand.

They can't.
Of course, they don't own the patent on the crude oil and have only certified the final product & the additive package. Incidentally, usually developed in collaboration with an oil company, as for example, Ford has done with Castrol.

Therefore it is obvious for me to choose an oil that meets or exceeds the manufacturer's requirements.

This means that my starting point is to use API CD~CF 15W/40, mineral oil. This is not readily available anymore, but fortunately, later grades are backwards compatible so therefore I use a Marine API SJ 15W/40 oil (I know there was discussion about CF specifically, but that's history now too).

As far as oil changes by time or by use, I am in the process of ordering oil analysis for both engines. Changed oil last spring and didn't have many engine hours since, so I'm waiting for a documented reason to change again - or not.

 

[TNLI]

We're going to have to agree to disagree on this one I think.

You are not suggesting that Asda are fiddling their labels to show an API rating in order to sell oil are you?

The minimum required by Honda is API SJ - the API SN is a cumulative improvement over 22 years. So if it "only" reaches API SN then thats OK by me!

ASDA are just selling a product supplied by an outside company. I doubt if they even check what it is, in terms of the exact type of base stock or additives that amount to half the cost of most oils. Even if they do check, there is a big temptation for the producer to then reduce the additive levels to increase their profits.

If you have any questions about which oil to use when there are a number of different options made by one company. Liqui Moly are very good at answering questions. My engine is under warranty, so I have to use the manufacturers oil, BUT once it's out of warranty I will switch to an oil recommended by the Liqui Moly techinical department.

Oil filters are just as important as the oil, so I always buy the very best. If you can't get one from the manufacturer, Bosch and Mann made in Germany seem to be best, BUT, the internet has a lot of fake copies, so only buy from a good dealer that does not sell fakes. It's the box and quality of the internal pleats that give a fake away.

Finally if you want any type of engine to last as long as possible, try and avoid cold starts by heating the engine bay if possible, although I use 12V Wolverine heat pads on the sump. You can also get 110 or 240V sump heat pads. Lots listed on Fleabay and Amazinzone.

Engine Oil Heaters Eliminate Cold Starts | Battery Direct - New Zealand's premium Battery Specialists

 

[TNLI]

The bigger the

Yup, my current take is that on my Caterpillars I use their Advanced filters (Oil and Fuel) and not any aftermarket ones, due to some interesting interviews from a US based CAT truck engineer (Adept Ape). Engine oil I just ensure the oil I buy is above the 'recommended' API grade that CAT recommend in their engine manual. I think they recommend CH4 minimum and my oil meets that.

Regarding changing intervals, modern oils are pretty advanced so if you've done minimal hours (particularly not many cold starts) and the oil looks in great condition I can't see an issue of keeping it for an extra season.

The bigger the diesel, the more important the oil filter quality is. With smaller diesels it's more important to use the best oil possible.

If the manufacturer publishes a list of viscosity options for different temperatures, it does help to use an oil that matches the listed viscosity table, if there is one. For example the Bukh diesel I loked at before buying a Beta 30 listed 15W40 or SAE 40 in summer, but 0W30 in an artic winter. Oddly enough the single grade oils last slightly longer than multigrades, as the viscosity inhibitor additives that allow an oil to change viscosity with temperature, weaken the base stock slightly. The SAE 40 would be real tough on the starter and engine block if you did not preheat the oil or warm the engine bay to at least plus 10C.

 

[ChromeDome]

The bigger the

The bigger the diesel, the more important the oil filter quality is. With smaller diesels it's more important to use the best oil possible.

If the manufacturer publishes a list of viscosity options for different temperatures, it does help to use an oil that matches the listed viscosity table, if there is one. For example the Bukh diesel I loked at before buying a Beta 30 listed 15W40 or SAE 40 in summer, but 0W30 in an artic winter. Oddly enough the single grade oils last slightly longer than multigrades, as the viscosity inhibitor additives that allow an oil to change viscosity with temperature, weaken the base stock slightly. The SAE 40 would be real tough on the starter and engine block if you did not preheat the oil or warm the engine bay to at least plus 10C.

You may note also, that manufacturers like to come up with own/updated requirements - like VAG for coolant (Gxx) and Volvo Penta for oils (VDSxx) which, at least for a time, limit the choise of alternatives.

 

[TNLI]

The manufacturers specify the requirements and if they could, they would make the warranty conditional on using only their own brand.

They can't.
Of course, they don't own the patent on the crude oil and have only certified the final product & the additive package. Incidentally, usually developed in collaboration with an oil company, as for example, Ford has done with Castrol.

Therefore it is obvious for me to choose an oil that meets or exceeds the manufacturer's requirements.

This means that my starting point is to use API CD~CF 15W/40, mineral oil. This is not readily available anymore, but fortunately, later grades are backwards compatible so therefore I use a Marine API SJ 15W/40 oil (I know there was discussion about CF specifically, but that's history now too).

As far as oil changes by time or by use, I am in the process of ordering oil analysis for both engines. Changed oil last spring and didn't have many engine hours since, so I'm waiting for a documented reason to change again - or not.

Great, it's a real good way of figuring out how long to use an oil for and is an excellent way of detecting faults, like a leaking head gasket, defective injection system, split air filter or even main bearing wear.
Most folks don't realse that the best results are from an oil change interval that is as long as possible, and the only way to know how long to use an oil for, is to take a 200ml sample and send it to an oil lab. I use Blackstones as they provide a freee test kit and have a good set of universal averages for most diesels. That way you can tell what is normal. Nearly all big rig engines in the trucks and trains have their oil changed according to oil lab results. I also use oil labs to experiment with different oils to see if one is better.
Free Test Kits | Blackstone Laboratories (blackstone-labs.com)

Blackstone Laboratories (blackstone-labs.com)

 

[ChromeDome]

I'm planning on a EU/UK test lab to avoid shipping costs and customs/dangerous goods filing.
Waiting for response re. Finning labs. but open to suggestions

Anyone?

 

[Hot Property]

ASDA are just selling a product supplied by an outside company. I doubt if they even check what it is, in terms of the exact type of base stock or additives that amount to half the cost of most oils. Even if they do check, there is a big temptation for the producer to then reduce the additive levels to increase their profits.

If you have any questions about which oil to use when there are a number of different options made by one company. Liqui Moly are very good at answering questions. My engine is under warranty, so I have to use the manufacturers oil, BUT once it's out of warranty I will switch to an oil recommended by the Liqui Moly techinical department.

Oil filters are just as important as the oil, so I always buy the very best. If you can't get one from the manufacturer, Bosch and Mann made in Germany seem to be best, BUT, the internet has a lot of fake copies, so only buy from a good dealer that does not sell fakes. It's the box and quality of the internal pleats that give a fake away.

Finally if you want any type of engine to last as long as possible, try and avoid cold starts by heating the engine bay if possible, although I use 12V Wolverine heat pads on the sump. You can also get 110 or 240V sump heat pads. Lots listed on Fleabay and Amazinzone.

Engine Oil Heaters Eliminate Cold Starts | Battery Direct - New Zealand's premium Battery Specialists

My engine is under warranty too!

I'll repeat again, the oil spec from Honda is out of date by 20 years and to suggest that Asda (or other retailers) are selling a product that doesnt meet the stated standards is a slippery slope to say the least...

 

[TNLI]

I'm planning on a EU/UK test lab to avoid shipping costs and customs/dangerous goods filing.
Waiting for response re. Finning labs. but open to suggestions

Anyone?

I've sent dozens of test samples from the EU and UK to Blackstones without issue. The basic test is 30 dollars and post is about a tenner. Finning might be OK, but can't find a price list or an example of their report. Try them and let us know the result.

 

[TNLI]

Most warranti

My engine is under warranty too!

I'll repeat again, the oil spec from Honda is out of date by 20 years and to suggest that Asda (or other retailers) are selling a product that doesnt meet the stated standards is a slippery slope to say the least...

Most warranties are invalidated if you don't use the dealers or manufacturers oil, and an oil lab can tell the difference. A bit different if it's an extended warranty. A good major brand oil is only 5 to 10 quid more for 5 liters than supermarket oil, and I can't understand why anyone who owns an expensive engine would want to save a fiver taking a chance over the quality of the oil. Do you buy Fram El Cheapo oil filters to help extend the engines life ??

One bad thing about cheap oils is that the bae oil is often contaminated with tiny, (10 to 20 micron), particles of Silicon, (Sand), that gets past the oil filter and then gets stuck in the bearing races causing a lot of increased wear. Cheap oils are not filtered. Hydrocrack oils are, (Called full synthetic in the UK and USA, but not the real thing). The best oils for cleanliness are the German full synthetics and Shell GTL, (Gas To Liquids), oils that are used in Shell Ultra.