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Best place to do YM?

mm42

Active member
Joined
9 Sep 2014
Messages
300
Location
Scarborough
It always makes me laugh when you get discussions of qualifications on here, there's always a few who dismiss them, varying from "pointless certificates" through "I've met a bloke with XYZ ticket and he was rubbish".

It's as if the insecurity of the poster in their own ability comes through by way of rubbishing industry standard qualifications that some are, rightly, proud to have achieved.
 

capnsensible

Well-known member
Joined
15 Mar 2007
Messages
29,097
Location
Atlantic
It always makes me laugh when you get discussions of qualifications on here, there's always a few who dismiss them, varying from "pointless certificates" through "I've met a bloke with XYZ ticket and he was rubbish".

It's as if the insecurity of the poster in their own ability comes through by way of rubbishing industry standard qualifications that some are, rightly, proud to have achieved.
Good post.
 
Joined
31 Oct 2020
Messages
430
It always makes me laugh when you get discussions of qualifications on here, there's always a few who dismiss them, varying from "pointless certificates" through "I've met a bloke with XYZ ticket and he was rubbish".

It's as if the insecurity of the poster in their own ability comes through by way of rubbishing industry standard qualifications that some are, rightly, proud to have achieved.
Spot on. I would add, if you regularly take unknown crew, as I do, from the excellent Creewseekers for example; or alternatively, if you sometimes crew for complete strangers, the standardisation of methods, and even terminology, is a huge advantage.
For example, working out tides, plotting courses is taught in a consistent way in the RYA courses, but self-taught folk may develop their own weird and wonderful idiosyncratic routes to a safe passage plan, which leads to tortured conversation about the meanings of words etc before you even slip the lines.
I'm not implying everyone should do all the exams, my default attitude is libertarian, and many folk find the courses pricey, or they may be dyslexic or something, but for casual or even not-so-casual yacht cruising, why wouldn't you?
I have been involved in a couple of expensive incidents, crewing on commercial vessels, which could have been avoided with Day Skipper theory on top of a 10,000 ton Master's Certificate!
And I appreciate the Pacific was explored and settled by prehistoric illiterate cavemen sailors who made long journeys in open boats. I wonder what they would make of a modern marina!
 
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ross84

Member
Joined
1 Mar 2019
Messages
142
Thanks for all the responses. I guess overall I would like to stay in Spain.

The idea of doing a fast track/intensive course would be ideally to get some work on delivery yachts/work in the sailing industry. Also the skills and confidence to sail solo.

I'm not sure if the 8k is better served just buying a Vega or whatever and learning on my own terms?

I enjoyed doing the CC/DS in Gibalter, but I feel like I learn quicker alone. Also living in confined spaces is challenging as an introvert.
 
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Babylon

Well-known member
Joined
7 Jan 2008
Messages
4,011
Location
Solent
That's a jolly good question! Actually you pose two questions...

You raise the issue of being an 'introvert' while considering doing deliveries and/or working in the industry? Not that these activities are necessarily incompatible with your nature, but it would be extremely difficult for anyone else to determine what is right for you in this respect. (How old are you? What are your other personality attributes? Strengths and weaknesses? Longer-term dreams etc?) Don't forget however that, whilst its important to be true to one's nature, one can also find strategies to enable oneself to operate happily and successfully beyond one's so-called 'comfort-zone'. (I do this all the time!!)

Regarding spending £8k on a fast-track course versus on a boat? Many might advise getting your own wee boat as soon as possible, gain sea-miles and hone your nav, sailing, technical and maintenance skills on the job, etc. HOWEVER: do not underestimate the following which a well-run fast-track course will offer you:
  • concentrated comprehensive skills training from experienced professionals
  • confidence in learning/working as part of a team (this would seem to be of particular advantage to you)
  • the benefit of gaining a wider perspective from the life experiences of both instructors and fellow-students
  • future contacts and possible career/casual-working opportunities
So I'd think about the longer-term if I were you. There'll be plenty of opportunity to buy your £8k Vega later (or maybe a different boat once you've gained a lot more knowledge and experience?).

Re sailing solo, that's not difficult at all - but I wouldn't let that consideration get in the way of your strategic decision right now.

Think big... "focus on the process, not the outcome" (y)
 
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Uricanejack

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Joined
22 Oct 2012
Messages
3,539
You need to decide what your goal is.

8 k is a lot of money.
If your goal is to work in the industry. It may be a good investment in time and money.
If you go to a well know and recognised training centre.

If your goal is to sail your own boat spending the money on a small boat to gain experience and taking courses when you have the mileage time and money.
Would be better.

I am not an extrovert.
If find once you join a crew and get to know other crew it takes me a little while to get comfortable but a boat is a small world and I find I enjoy the company of a crew.
In fact it was one of the pleasures of being a sailing instructor.
I met and got to know lots of interesting people from many different walks of life. In a small comfortable group. I would never have interacted with or gotten to know otherwise.

Even so I have never been comfortable putting my name in to a crewing site or delivery company. Hesitant to sail with strangers
I’ve worked for two different sailing organisations. I got to know when I walked in through the door. While out. Kicking tires.

Working as a sailing instructor was a lot of fun but not very lucrative. I probably spent as much as I earned. I was working for fun rather than money.
My wife never accepted I was working.
 
Joined
31 Oct 2020
Messages
430
It is a good idea, before planning a commercial career, to make sure you can pass the ENG1 medical. £80 now might save you £8000...if you turn out to be colour-blind, for example.
 

Uricanejack

Well-known member
Joined
22 Oct 2012
Messages
3,539
Fast track or not is a completely different question.
With lot’s of different opinions.
A lot of the negative.

from an employers point of view I think it’s very good.

We do seasonally hire crew. And will talk to lots of people if we can. We take the best we can get.
Having been through a recognised training program at a recognised training centre is a big advantage.
We actively recruit through local training centres.

The training centres reputation is important and we send someone to each graduating class to pitch our company.
So do other employers. Including some of the big shinny yachts

Not being in the Uk an applicant with RYA is rare. But not unknown.
I have no idea what a RYA PB level 2 is.
I do know where Warsash is.
Even though it’s not on our usual list.
Hired. Based on warsash has a good reputation for training. Same would go for anyone who had been to a recognised training centre Uk.

somebody been knocking about for years on a variety of yachts etc. With or without some kind of qualification. Without having been to a training program we could check out.
if we need someone and If we can’t find anyone else maybe.
They usually don’t work out well.

Fast track would probably get you hired. If the training centre is well known.
Most good training centres have relationships with employers.

so is 8 k worth while?

A full YM is more than we are looking for. For an entry level job as deck hand. Scrubing decks washing windows and cleaning the heads.
we do want someone to be able to be STCW certified as lookout. Which requires 180 days off sea time.
Reduced to 60 if a recognised course was taken. Or the course time can be counted.
For the lad with the PB level 2 we couldn’t get the reduction to 60 days but we did get the course time to count towards the 180 plus the days he had worked on a yacht.


if you are looking for work it probably is worth while.
although about 5k for a STCW deck course will do the trick.
Not sure what the current cost is.
 
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ross84

Member
Joined
1 Mar 2019
Messages
142
That's a jolly good question! Actually you pose two questions...

You raise the issue of being an 'introvert' while considering doing deliveries and/or working in the industry? Not that these activities are necessarily incompatible with your nature, but it would be extremely difficult for anyone else to determine what is right for you in this respect. (How old are you? What are your other personality attributes? Strengths and weaknesses? Longer-term dreams etc?) Don't forget however that, whilst its important to be true to one's nature, one can also find strategies to enable oneself to operate happily and successfully beyond one's so-called 'comfort-zone'. (I do this all the time!!)

Regarding spending £8k on a fast-track course versus on a boat? Many might advise getting your own wee boat as soon as possible, gain sea-miles and hone your nav, sailing, technical and maintenance skills on the job, etc. HOWEVER: do not underestimate the following which a well-run fast-track course will offer you:
  • concentrated comprehensive skills training from experienced professionals
  • confidence in learning/working as part of a team (this would seem to be of particular advantage to you)
  • the benefit of gaining a wider perspective from the life experiences of both instructors and fellow-students
  • future contacts and possible career/casual-working opportunities
So I'd think about the longer-term if I were you. There'll be plenty of opportunity to buy your £8k Vega later (or maybe a different boat once you've gained a lot more knowledge and experience?).

Re sailing solo, that's not difficult at all - but I wouldn't let that consideration get in the way of your strategic decision right now.

Think big... "focus on the process, not the outcome" (y)
Thanks Babylon, and to everyone else.

Yeah, I did my DS and then was about to help sail a 34ft sloop from Ipswich to Liverpool via Dublin and then the world went batshit crazy. Since then, everything has been on hold. I've been lurking on these forums for a few years now, asking many questions - I was almost there this time last year, but I feel like I'm almost back at zero again!

I guess in temrs of the 'long game', I'm wondering what sort of direction in life I wish to go next at. 9-5 living doesn't seem to suit me. I'm not motivated by status symbols, so I don't need to earn large amounts of money, hence I can be time rich and cash poor, so long as doing what I want.

So far I've lived a life spent traveling and doing expedition-based travels - i.e. solo self-supported bike and kayak trips in remote places. A small solid yacht seems like the ulimate vehicle for me. Being in the middle of the Atlantic at night under a million stars is a dream to me, even if I was completely alone. It would open up, well, literally, the whole world and a world which I'm only just 'tasting' with my 13ft kayak...

I was hoping the YM might be a way into the industry to earn a bit of money/open some doors - definitely not interested in making loads of money on super yachts. I'd be happy to teach sailing too -- it's just that I have found the social life around sailing a bit tiring in the past i.e. spent all day together in a small space and then go to the restaurant and drink, then often I found heavy drinking, not much sleep, and then it spoils the next day. That's what I want to avoid really. I'm too old for that these days!

I'm in my mid-thirties, my current job is a teacher - I'm an introvert it's true, but I like people and I like learning from others. Doing a yacht delivery with 2-3 other professional sailors or helping someone acheive their dream would be great for me, but really keen to avoid this boozey yacht club mentality, which in the past I've found insular and totally at odds with what I imagine seafaring to be i.e. openess to new culture, appreciation of nature and the joy of travel for travel's sake. Idealistic and slightly naive perhaps, I know!
 

doug748

Well-known member
Joined
1 Oct 2002
Messages
10,150
Location
Plymouth
Thanks for all the responses. I guess overall I would like to stay in Spain.

The idea of doing a fast track/intensive course would be ideally to get some work on delivery yachts/work in the sailing industry. Also the skills and confidence to sail solo.

I'm not sure if the 8k is better served just buying a Vega or whatever and learning on my own terms?

I enjoyed doing the CC/DS in Gibalter, but I feel like I learn quicker alone. Also living in confined spaces is challenging as an introvert.


There is a place in Gib that is said to be good. I thought of going there years ago but in the end did a short course in the Solent area.

It was the worst week of my life, I hated it. If you have doubts, save the money, do some delivery trips and buy yourself a boat with the cash. (y)

On a course you might learn something about sailing. On your own boat you learn about sailing but, more importantly, making decisions.

.
 

Babylon

Well-known member
Joined
7 Jan 2008
Messages
4,011
Location
Solent
You certainly sound self-sufficient, which is an excellent starting point for any sailor let alone single-hander worth his/her/its self.

Yes a lot of sailing seems to involve boozy bonhomie, but not all by any means. I belong to a yacht club and don't drink much (in fact drank nothing last year) but that never stopped me having a good chat with someone at the bar!

Maybe - from what you say - this is the time for you to focus on finding your own small seaworthy boat and get cracking...? You can do your YM practical at any stage really (I still haven't done mine), but be aware that its apparently as much about demonstrating good 'crew-management' skills etc as about the passage-planning, sailing, COLREGS etc stuff. Once you've got it however you'll be more attractive to any delivery skippers (as the son of old friends of mine is).

You might also message Pete (Halcyon Yachts) of this parish for his opinion.
 

Alicatt

Well-known member
Joined
6 Nov 2017
Messages
534
Location
Eating in Eksel or Ice Cold in Alex
Just sayin.

Day Skipper is a course. It gives the necessary skills to skipper a small vessel in daylight hours in familiar waters. It's a confidence builder to enable those who do it voluntarily to get out there and go for it on their own. It's not a pre requisite for YM. You don't need to have even heard of it.

But what you do need are the 2500 miles yadda yadda as so often mentioned on here.

Alicatt. I would say your solution of doing the simple ICC test with your experience is a top solution. You can download the test form from the RYA site . Armed with that you will see what to revise. Good luck!
Reading the application form an ICC from the RYA will no longer be an option for me.

RYA said:
Unless the applicant is resident in the UK, the UK ICC issued by the RYA is not available to the nationals of the following countries that have currently adopted Resolution No. 40: Austria, Belarus, Belgium, Bulgaria, Croatia, Czechia, Finland, Germany, Hungary, Ireland, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Romania, Serbia, Slovakia, Switzerland and Ukraine. This list (correct at 01/10/2020) is subject to change.
Warning: If you are a national of a country that has adopted Resolution No. 40 and were issued with an ICC by the RYA before that country adopted Resolution No. 40 you will not be able to amend or renew your ICC. You must return the certificate to the RYA and you will not be entitled to any refund. If you are a national of a country that has adopted Resolution No. 40 and were issued with an ICC by the RYA because you were resident in the UK but you have ceased to be resident in the UK you will not be able to amend or renew your ICC. If your details change you must return the certificate to the RYA and you will not be entitled to any refund. It is the applicant’s responsibility to check that they are eligible to be issued with the ICC before undertaking any training courses, tests or assessments with a view to obtaining an ICC.
 
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Joined
31 Oct 2020
Messages
430
Alicatt, maybe you could bend the rules and use one of the accomodation addresses designed for itinerant yachtsmen? They use ordinary house and street numbers so won't raise suspicion.
 

ross84

Member
Joined
1 Mar 2019
Messages
142
There is a place in Gib that is said to be good. I thought of going there years ago but in the end did a short course in the Solent area.

It was the worst week of my life, I hated it. If you have doubts, save the money, do some delivery trips and buy yourself a boat with the cash. (y)

On a course you might learn something about sailing. On your own boat you learn about sailing but, more importantly, making decisions.

.
What was so bad about it?
 
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