Fairline Boats purchased

[crazy4557]

Re: Fairline makes boat show comeback in Miami

Not heard anything from the administrators for a while. Not expecting to get paid but if it happens then that's a result.

Pete, thanks for the updates and info. Got any pictures? Do you know whether the high tech furniture line (the automated wood lacquer gear) installed in Corby during Alistair Schofield's tenure) is being moved to Oundle/Nene Valley?

Ref the above quote, if I may call a spade a spade, that is business nonsense. Crazy, you sold your bags to someone completely different, who didn't pay you, and that's bad luck of course. You have my sympathy: I'm a business equity owner too and it's happened to me. It's part and parcel of being in business on your own account rather than being an employee. But to suggest that a debt owed to you by A should be paid by B is muddled thinking in the extreme with a strong flavour of "please can someone else wipe my bottom". The bad taste is entirely of your own invention and any criticism of the new Fairline for not paying you is illogical and most unfair.

I wish Russell, Karl, Andy, Martyn and the wider team, plus the shareholders, much luck in this new venture. They need a new formula of course: Henryf you go on and on about the shortcomings in their current model line up compared with Princess, and I agree with you that those shortcomings exist, but fixing them is absolutely not the solution as you seem to think. The evidence for that is that Princess make old Fairline look like amateurs when it comes to losing money. Princess have at last replaced their CEO and I hope they have a new business plan because their current one is broken badly and there is surely no more money in their shareholder's pockets. Watch that space. New Fairline needs some sharper new designs of course, but they also need an all new leaner production and overhead model, the very opposite of Princess. If they need inspiration, a visit to Azimut would be more useful than a trip to Plymouth
Read more at http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?447990-Fairline-Boats-purchased/page29#jlf4eMVgPcohoFuM.99

I'm not expecting to get paid and understand 100% the implications of creditors caught up in a company going bust. Happened a few times and no doubt will happen again and again.

Reason for my comment earlier JFM, is under normal circumstances you don't see/hear anything about the goods you lost but this time, I understand Pete has a factory visit, it all sounds rosy and come's away with one of my assets!! It's galling to I hear about this on a forum about my favourite pastime.

Any hope of being paid is pie in the sky

 

[Hugin]

Pictures would have been worthless as it's literally a building site. There is a fairly large space where all the CNC stuff is going, perhaps that's the stuff that you mean. I did ask if they were going backwards in terms of automation and was assured this is not the case.

PM sent

 

[jfm]

Excuse my ignorance.. but Wessex bought fairline for a quid from better capital and better capital had £2million consideration which they called in and started the cards tumbling. FYL just paid £4.3million, that leaves someone with over £2million in the kitty to pay any outstanding debts surely?

Yes it does. There is a pecking order after BC's floating charge, and employees + administrators fees (sand other things) come before trade creditors. Any left over will go to trade creditors.

And how come wessex could find someone prepared to pay £4.3mil but better capital could only manage £1? Stinks to me.

The £1 and the £4.3m, if either number is right, were the prices paid for profoundly different things so comparing them is a complete apples vs oranges comparison

 

[jfm]

Re: Fairline makes boat show comeback in Miami

Reason for my comment earlier JFM, is under normal circumstances you don't see/hear anything about the goods you lost but this time, I understand Pete has a factory visit, it all sounds rosy and come's away with one of my assets!! It's galling to I hear about this on a forum about my favourite pastime.

Any hope of being paid is pie in the sky

I get that and I sympathise. The galling-ness however is your emotion. The point I want to drive home is that new Fairline are not at all at fault nor should their integrity be questioned when they don't pay old Fairline's debts. You voluntarily parted with ownership of those bags in return for a promise of payment, and that's a normal business transaction that many people do. Old Fairline then didn't honour the promise, it seems. New and old Fairline are completely different things however, and the suggestion new Fairline pays old Fairline's promises is like saying you should pay off my debts just because, say, we both post on this forum

 

[KevB]

The £1 and the £4.3m, if either number is right, were the prices paid for profoundly different things so comparing them is a complete apples vs oranges comparison

I sort of understand they are different things in that one doesn't have any debts, employees and everything that goes with them to worry about but is left with essentially the good stuff and a clean slate and that's what stinks. Wessex where "possibly" just the middle men to do the dirty deeds.

 

[jfm]

I sort of understand they are different things in that one doesn't have any debts, employees and everything that goes with them to worry about but is left with essentially the good stuff and a clean slate and that's what stinks. Wessex where "possibly" just the middle men to do the dirty deeds.

I totally do not see the stink at all here. New Fairline are a completely new thing, at both company/legal and management/shareholder levels. They have entirely clean hands. They bought what they bought for a price negotiated completely at arms length. There is no "phoenix" or "prepack" scenario here. Sure the outcome for those who lost money to old fairline is sad, but to say the thing "stinks" is deeply unfair in my view

 

[petem]

Furthermore, AFAIK it's the administrators not WB that have sold the assets. As far as I can see, WB come away with nothing. If you're looking for a bad smell then my opinion would be to ask why Better Capital weren't putting funds into Fairline Boats to pay Crazy, EME and other suppliers, despite "Better’s 2009 fund faring better, with its net asset value rising from £249m to £268.7m over six months", see http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...ital-sees-fund-lose-a-fifth-of-its-value.html.

 

[KevB]

I'm definitely not going to dispute anything you say on this kind of matter, or most others JFM...
From a layman on the outside looking in point of view, the three companies involved have all come out better than they went in, only the people who are owed money or who's lively hood depended on it have come out worse.

If I had had £4mill I wanted to invest into boat building, If owned a loss making boat building company with employee relations and a reputation to uphold and if I owned a company with a reputation of stripping assets and nothing to lose, I can't think of a better scenario for the three to come together. Just seems too neat. Maybe it's normal business.

Good luck to Fairline, their employee's and their new owners going forward.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Excuse my ignorance.. but Wessex bought fairline for a quid from better capital and better capital had £2million consideration which they called in and started the cards tumbling. FYL just paid £4.3million, that leaves someone with over £2million in the kitty to pay any outstanding debts surely?

A lot of that will be swallowed up by the administrators fat fees and the rest will undoubtedly go to preferential creditors. Don't forget that what Wessex bought was a company with a few assets and huge liabilities. What the Russians have bought is a company with a few assets and no liabilities, hence it is worth a lot more

 

[EME]

And how come wessex could find someone prepared to pay £4.3mil but better capital could only manage £1? Stinks to me.

I not believe either of those statements are true.

- BC sold to Wessex for an undisclosed future consideration ---- and a bloody great Sword of Damocles (floating charge) over the remaining assets
- Wessex sold to no-one
- BC invited the administrators in
- The administrators sold 'some assets' for a sum believed to be £4.3m to a Totally New company
- The administrators will divi up that and whatever else is left to the creditors in the appointed order set down by law.
- We have no idea what Wessex, its principals and associates may or may not have made / will make as a result of the deal (s)

 

[jfm]

... the three companies involved have all come out better than they went in...

I don't think that is at all correct. None of them (Better, Wessex, New Fairline) is better than they went in, though I hope of course New fairline do ultimately achieve that, but it will be after years of smart and hard graft

 

[jfm]

I not believe either of those statements are true.

- BC sold to Wessex for an undisclosed future consideration ---- and a bloody great Sword of Damocles (floating charge) over the remaining assets
- Wessex sold to no-one
- BC invited the administrators in
- The administrators sold 'some assets' for a sum believed to be £4.3m to a Totally New company
- The administrators will divi up that and whatever else is left to the creditors in the appointed order set down by law.
- We have no idea what Wessex, its principals and associates may or may not have made / will make as a result of the deal (s)

That's exactly correct.
The tough facts are all in the administrators 2.17B filing at co House last month - their full report is public. Unpaid creditors are listed one by one and fortunately for you EME your £2k is tiny compared with some of the micro businesses who suffered quite badly - MJ Trimmers £150k -sheesh- who as many of us know is one of the nicest boat gear suppliers you could meet (upholstery). The numbers suggest there will be no return to unsecured creditors, and Deleted User it isn't because of the administrators fees.
All very tough.

 

[petem]

MJ £150K, jeez.

 

[jfm]

MJ £150K, jeez.

Yup. He went into insolvency afaik but is now a new start up, so he is ok ish, and his work is top-notch as ever going by some stuff I've just received from him (he has re-movida-ed my tender and foredeck, which get a lot of sun). Plenty other creditors listed in the £150k ballpark, including Volvo. This is all public information; I'm not revealing any insider info or anything

 

[Whitelighter]

Do you contact details for him JFM? Need my cushions doing.

 

[rbcoomer]

I'm amazed the Serious Fraud Office don't look at this. BC would have made a significant loss had the company been wound up at the end of their tenure as presumably it was insolvent? By reeling in a 3rd party, creating a secured charge and then calling in administrators, they clearly moved themselves ahead of the genuine creditors - i.e. employees / small businesses that could least stand the loss. Sadly, similar happens all too often in the insolvency world. Whatever role WB played - either knowingly or unknowingly, BC's part in it stinks - much like CityLink.

 

[petem]

I'm amazed the Serious Fraud Office don't look at this. BC would have made a significant loss had the company been wound up at the end of their tenure as presumably it was insolvent? By reeling in a 3rd party, creating a secured charge and then calling in administrators, they clearly moved themselves ahead of the genuine creditors - i.e. employees / small businesses that could least stand the loss. Sadly, similar happens all too often in the insolvency world. Whatever role WB played - either knowingly or unknowingly, BC's part in it stinks - much like CityLink.

I'm on my third beer now but that strikes me as an interesting post!

 

[rbcoomer]

I'm on my third beer now but that strikes me as an interesting post!

I worked briefly for a firm of accountants that specialised in building from ashes so to speak... Some of what goes on and they get away with would make a good book! It was along time ago, but I'm sure much the same types of tricks are pulled now as then.

 

[EME]

fortunately for you EME your £2k is tiny

Darn it -- never realised I was that lucky. Unfortunately it was more than that but irrelevant as zero chance of seeing it so we just have to look to the future .If anyone does want to see how financially bad it is/was the 2.17B is an easy read and all in the public domain. MJ however puts everything into context -- Really nice family as well so everyone please support them --- but pay your blooming bills.

 

[pks1702]

2.17B https://www.freecompanyaccounts.co.uk/form/fbal-sellco/2.17B/2016-01-29/111133048

Fascinating Pret a Manger were owed £1200 - that's a few Lattes!