Yurkey & Discharges

[free1]

Good evening:

Free1: Please advise what makes you so sure that you can make such a statement.

Are you in a position to know what you are talking about or do you think that we will all rush out and get busy installing gray tanks or get ready to leave Turkey on the basis of your assurance that the project will be implemented this year?

Would like to suggest that you take a few minutes to explain and provide some evidence to back up your view as so many others have done so well on this thread.

Cheers

Squeaky

Iyi aksamlar

affedersiniz( Excuse me)I do not know the protcol on here. However I have lived and sailed in and around Turkey and Greece for a long time.

This gray / black water, has been on the cards for a long time, hoping that it will go away will not make it go away so I afraid it is here to stay and we will have to live with it.
After they find out how many yachts they have frightened off, the law will change, or not be implemented

Allahaismarladik

free1

 

[Appleyard]

Turkey discharges

Not wishing to prolong this thread indefinitely,but does anyone know how the flotilla /charter companies are intending to handle this issue?
Presumably they will have been informed about the proposed blue cards/pump out restrictions and will have to make provisions soomer rather than later as their boats will possibly need to be modified .
Also the pump out and card costs will add to their costs and may be reflected in their charges.

 

[syfuga]

Turkish regulations

does anyone know how the flotilla /charter companies are intending to handle this issue?

That is a good question.. as someone pointed out the charterers are not directly responsible if their clients pump out and get fined.

It is surprising how quiet the yachting industry in Turkey generally has been on the issue.

For anyone with energy and curiosity, I have posted a number of links and documents on

www.syfuga.co.uk/turkey_notes.htm (bottom of page)

If you will be affected, it might be worthwhile talking to your marina etc. and perhaps reinforcing the message.

 

[philip17]

Pump out charges

If we are pessimistic and assume this law will be implemented does anybody have an indication of the charges that will apply for the pump out of black and grey water tanks? Will the charges be based on volume or the number of tanks that are pumped out.
I am presently completing a re-fit of an Oceanis 500 so now is the time for me to fit grey water tanks. However with 3 heads and sinks I will end up with 5 tanks - 3 Black @ 45 litres each and 2 grey @ 90 litres each. If the charges are per tank then it will be too expensive for me to cruise this area as with 6 persons onboard I will probably have to pumpout every 2 days.
The Turkish Tourism guy at the London Boat Show thought the pumpout would be free!!! But I really can't believe that.

 

[Marsupial]

If we are pessimistic and assume this law will be implemented does anybody have an indication of the charges that will apply for the pump out of black and grey water tanks? Will the charges be based on volume or the number of tanks that are pumped out.
I am presently completing a re-fit of an Oceanis 500 so now is the time for me to fit grey water tanks. However with 3 heads and sinks I will end up with 5 tanks - 3 Black @ 45 litres each and 2 grey @ 90 litres each. If the charges are per tank then it will be too expensive for me to cruise this area as with 6 persons onboard I will probably have to pumpout every 2 days.
The Turkish Tourism guy at the London Boat Show thought the pumpout would be free!!! But I really can't believe that.

The figures quoted in Fethiye newspapers is 30 euro per tonne of waste water, some have said a minimum of 50 ltrs per day per person but the actual amount has not been confirmed, although it appears that there is a move to enforce a minimum amount per person per day to be recorded on the blue card.

As far as I am aware if your boat is pumped out by one of the two tanker boats the service is free - but I only have the word of a government officer on this and he is a sailor but NOT involved in the project.

Logistically the whole idea just does not "gel" but appeals on the practicality of the scheme fall on deaf ears. We will have to wait and see I am afraid.

 

[Chris_Robb]

If we are pessimistic and assume this law will be implemented does anybody have an indication of the charges that will apply for the pump out of black and grey water tanks? Will the charges be based on volume or the number of tanks that are pumped out.
I am presently completing a re-fit of an Oceanis 500 so now is the time for me to fit grey water tanks. However with 3 heads and sinks I will end up with 5 tanks - 3 Black @ 45 litres each and 2 grey @ 90 litres each. If the charges are per tank then it will be too expensive for me to cruise this area as with 6 persons onboard I will probably have to pumpout every 2 days.
The Turkish Tourism guy at the London Boat Show thought the pumpout would be free!!! But I really can't believe that.

Will anyone really want to ruin their charter holiday with the queue every other day for the potty dispenser? This means moving from nice out of the way anchorages to come into a marina (presumably), pump out and go all the way back to nice secluded anchorage.....- oh I forgot, you will not be allowed to anchor anymore, so if no mooring available on return to nice secluded anchoroage, so return and go back to marina from whence you came. I suppose the anchor ban is not about disturbing the Seahorse but the Well Spotted Turd......

Given all these things - just how would anyone want to take a charter holiday there - and I suppose for longer term cruisers it will be at least as stressfull.

 

[philip17]

The figures quoted in Fethiye newspapers is 30 euro per tonne of waste water, some have said a minimum of 50 ltrs per day per person but the actual amount has not been confirmed, although it appears that there is a move to enforce a minimum amount per person per day to be recorded on the blue card.

As far as I am aware if your boat is pumped out by one of the two tanker boats the service is free - but I only have the word of a government officer on this and he is a sailor but NOT involved in the project.

Logistically the whole idea just does not "gel" but appeals on the practicality of the scheme fall on deaf ears. We will have to wait and see I am afraid.[/QUOTE

Thanks for that information Marsupial, I had not really considered a minimum quantity enforcement; if that was fixed as high as 50 litres/day/person (which is ridiculously high unless you have an unlimited supply of fresh water) then it is just not practical to cruise this area with more than 2 persons onboard. This will obviously have an impact on the charter business as Chris has mentioned. I will now have to seriously consider whether it is worth installing the grey water tanks as it's not only the cost involved, it is the loss of valuable storage space.
Thanks again for the info

 

[syfuga]

Will it all just go away?

Following up on a fairly recent post, I've sent out some enquiries to Turkish charter operators. One chap I spoke to was quite relaxed: he is convinced it will simply not happen, and confirms that 'authorities' have not so far communicated any requirements for additional tanks etc.

In the meantime, you would have to think twice before making any modifications.

Known details all at www.syfuga.co.uk/turkey_notes.htm at bottom of page.

 

[Adaero]

I have been told by Sunsail Turkey that following a meeting with government officials and local marinas that the regulations will be delayed until the infastructure has been put in place?
I have also spoken with Leopard Catamarans who supply Sunsail & Moorings with Cats for the Med and they are not modifying any of the grey water systems on new boats bound for Turkey?

I personally think that it doesn't matter what is said in these meetings. Until the governing body actually release a statement delaying the start you will have local officials flying about in RIB's fining yachties who are not fully complying with the Blue Card scheme. If one of these guys stops you and requests your card and you haven't had enough waste pumped out how the hell can you argue your case based on heresay?

We are now bound for Croatia until the dust settles on this legislation. It's a real shame as we chartered out of Gocek a number of years ago and had a great time.

 

[Squeaky]

Good morning:

The manager of Netsel Marina in Marmaris reported at the Febuary Tea & Talk that there was to be a meeting with the Governor of Mugla province in the near future with marina managers, tourist association representatives and others affected by the Blue Card system attending.

He was of the opinion that this plan will not be implemented in 2010 due to the it's impracticality and has promised to up-date me later.

Think this will run and run and eventually disappear for all but the largest yachts or tour boats.

Cheers

Squeaky

 

[Appleyard]

Thanks for the update Squeaky Hope you are right!!!

 

[Ariadne]

With all these rumours about fines, grey & black water tanks needing to be fitted and no use of bilge pumps, We've said sod the Turks and their country. I was looking forward to heading there early this year but we are heading to Tunisia instead then on to Senegal.

We have a holding tank fitted, which will do 4-5 days with just No2s (with 4 of us on board its bucket and chuck it for the rest!). But if we had to fit, or run the grey water into the tank then we'd need to pump out every 36 hours or so.

What about showering - we shower on deck in the summer (we have not got a 'real' shower on board), how are we supposed to get that grey water into the tank? Are we allowed to soap up and swim it off before a fresh water rinse, judging by what's been said here and on other threads, no, we won't and we'll be hauled off to court and fined heavily!

Turkey has lost these 4 potential tourists and many more still waiting in Greece.

Far to much to worry about with over zealous officials etc. Not what cruising is about really is it!

 

[rickf]

Turkey

Well, We were hearded there as a final destination/goal.
Heck, we left the states five years ago with the thought of maybe
doing the EMYR. well, We've decided This year to go to Croatia
and then Tunisia. If this doesn't clear out this summer, screw it,
We'll head out. I can't and won't install grey tanks for Turkey.

Rickf
S/V/Calaloo

 

[mikehibb]

Update from Yalikavak (Port Bodrum Yalikavak Marina in Yalikavak, furthest NW you can get in Mugla province)

Sorry could not speak earlier, vodafone dongle did not work on my new Windows 7 laptop, will post on that later when I find a fix)

Asked at the marina, one guy said what problem? you have black water tank. Then one girl in the office said yes there is a new rule about Grey water.
I asked what we need to do, she said some people might be fitting additional grey water tanks.
She said that they had heard something about pumping out stations and that they might have to get people to use their pump out station (not sure if it actually works)
We only day sail, so not been a problem for us so far.

So basically a total non answer from the marina, maybe due to lack of accurate communication of these regulations to all relevent authorities and marinas, or maybe the Turkish way of thinking that regulations come out and then get changed so we will ignore them until they start clamping down on them.

Yalikavak Marina has always had a clear warning about b
Black water tanks on its mariners notice board, it is still there, but nothing about Grey.

Alternatively as mentioned on this and other threads, the main areas concerned are the special environmental protection areas in southern Mugla province. Even then I doubt that that they have the facilitoes in place to enforce anything at the moment.

They were not able to offer any information on Blue Cards either. If they had any I am sure that they would have tried to sell me one.

Yalikavak has two resident Turkish Coast Guard vessels berthed next to the fuel bunker, one small one, well I say small, and one big bu99er (with the turbine engines that throw a big rooster tail), so I would have thought that if they were intending on intercepting any of us that the Marina would know.

Sorry for the totally useless information posted above, but that was all I could get from the Marina, totally non commital response.

 

[Squeaky]

Good evening:

Ariadne - We've said sod the Turks and their country.

Your comment smacks of bigotry (unreasonably prejudiced and intolerant) in my opinion. What gives you the impression that over 70 millions Turks support this Blue card project? What even gives you the impression that it is supported by the central Turkish government?

As has been explained on this thread and previous threads this project was probably started by a small group in Fethiye who approached the provincial governor in Mugla who unwisely approved the law. I say unwisely because Mugla is located in land and I suspect the governor is not exactly all that familiar with yachts and yachting but as it was an anti-pollution law probably thought it was a good idea in principle - it actually is in principle but totally impractical although I am sure the sponsors were not interested in advising him on this subject.

Far to much to worry about with over zealous officials etc

Has anyone ever mentioned that Turkish officials are considered "over zealous" in connection with this law or any other Turkish law? If they have I have not noticed.

If you honestly think that Turkey is going to be upset or missing you and your crew, I think I can assure you that you are mistaken. There were over 30 million tourists in 2009 so four non-arrivals won't exactly ruin the economy.

With your apparent prejudice against Turks and Turkey you probably won't have been happy in any case, so probably a good thing that you have changed your plans.

To other cruisers thinking about visiting Turkey in 2010, I suggest you keep an open mind and watch for further news on this subject before making final plans.

Cheers and happy cruising.

Squeaky

 

[rivonia]

Good evening:

Ariadne - We've said sod the Turks and their country.

Your comment smacks of bigotry (unreasonably prejudiced and intolerant) in my opinion. What gives you the impression that over 70 millions Turks support this Blue card project? What even gives you the impression that it is supported by the central Turkish government?

As has been explained on this thread and previous threads this project was probably started by a small group in Fethiye who approached the provincial governor in Mugla who unwisely approved the law. I say unwisely because Mugla is located in land and I suspect the governor is not exactly all that familiar with yachts and yachting but as it was an anti-pollution law probably thought it was a good idea in principle - it actually is in principle but totally impractical although I am sure the sponsors were not interested in advising him on this subject.

Far to much to worry about with over zealous officials etc

Has anyone ever mentioned that Turkish officials are considered "over zealous" in connection with this law or any other Turkish law? If they have I have not noticed.

If you honestly think that Turkey is going to be upset or missing you and your crew, I think I can assure you that you are mistaken. There were over 30 million tourists in 2009 so four non-arrivals won't exactly ruin the economy.

With your apparent prejudice against Turks and Turkey you probably won't have been happy in any case, so probably a good thing that you have changed your plans.

To other cruisers thinking about visiting Turkey in 2010, I suggest you keep an open mind and watch for further news on this subject before making final plans.

Cheers and happy cruising.

Squeaky

Well I think that YOU are very predjudiced. We will not be coming to TURKY either and I firmly believe there are HUNDREDS of us cruisers who have changed there minds.

We now go to GREEK Islands and to Cro

 

[Squeaky]

Good evening:

Rivonia - Well I think that YOU are very predjudiced. We will not be coming to TURKY either and I firmly believe there are HUNDREDS of us cruisers who have changed there (their???) minds.

Always being willing to learn from others, I would appreciate it if you could give me a hint as to why you think I am prejudiced (please note spelling).

In so far as not coming to Turkey, I'm sure you will be missed along with the other hundreds to whom you refer. You will be missing some very good experiences in a beautiful cruising area and the chance of meeting some very nice people.

Cheers

Squeaky

"A person convinced their will is of the same opinion still"