Your thoughts on post-hurricane caribbean used-boat market ?

[tcm]

A broker said that the lack of supply of boats (loads smashed in the hurricanes) could drive prices up. But on the other hand ... there could easily be a "ooer, the Caribbean is a scary and smashed up place" factor that drives prices down. What does anyone think, I wonder?

 

[Carmel2]

Like picking on a dead man's grave when the body is still warm.

 

[BobnLesley]

I think both scenarios are right: I suspect that there will be very strong prices being offered for relatively new and very clean boats, particularly catamarans, as the charter fleets will need to replace their depleted fleets too quickly to wait for new-builds. Conversely, for those people trying to sell an older cruising/livaboard yachts to someone else whose got 'the dream' of buying a yacht to sail around the Caribbean for a few years, they will perhaps find that their prospective buyers are re-thinking their dream and the prices will be weaker.

 

[BurnitBlue]

Like picking on a dead man's grave when the body is still warm.

What difference does it make if the owner is dead. The relatives may welcome a bid as long as it is reasonable and not by an obvious carpetbagger. Although I think being a carpetbagger is the attraction while still in the Hurricane season.

The big cats will head for the charter trade and big prices. The small cats like a Prout 37 may drop in price because of shattered dreams.

On a boat buying scenario I am convinced that there are no bargains to be had in places easy to access. The internet spreads the news out to many boat buyers worldwide. The day when a buyer could stumble on a bargain are long gone. For instance, before internet days, I was moored in Corfu when a Halberg Rassy came alongside. The skippers wife couldn't wait to get off shouting "That's it. I've had it" etc. I offered the skipper a silly price as a joke. B>"#%er me but he accepted. He packed his bags that day then left for the airport with a happy wife. I was left owning two boats side by side. I was worried that I had just bought a charter boat off a disgruntled charterer. Two weeks of hope and worry and the title arrived in the mail. A miracle in Greece at that time. Today an advert on the net at the price I paid would be impossible. He would be flattened in the stampede to buy.

Edit for apostrophe madness.

 

[bedouin]

Any idea what proportion of boats have been destroyed or seriously damaged?

I am not sure the "Carribbean is a scary place" is a major factor - but insurance companies could have a big impact. If they start ramping up premiums for being in Carribbean in hurricane season or start to impose other difficult conditions then that could have a massive impact on the number of private boats based there and drive prices down.

 

[tcm]

I think both scenarios are right: I suspect that there will be very strong prices being offered for relatively new and very clean boats, particularly catamarans, as the charter fleets will need to replace their depleted fleets too quickly to wait for new-builds. Conversely, for those people trying to sell an older cruising/livaboard yachts to someone else whose got 'the dream' of buying a yacht to sail around the Caribbean for a few years, they will perhaps find that their prospective buyers are re-thinking their dream and the prices will be weaker.

Dang, it was the big catamarans i was thinking about. But ... not completely sure how many charter fleets urgently need replacing - how many tourists will fancy a cruise around the BVI this winter? Or St martin? Or St Barts? I think there could be a lot of waiting and seeing? I can’t even raise a broker on email in the affected areas, the airport remains shut and so on....

I suppose an early issue is paying out the insurance, right? But there’s no airport access for the loss adjuster yet, and no hotels where they can stay...

 

[Carmel2]

What difference does it make if the owner is dead

We carry two compasses aboard, one moral, and the other a Plastimo.

 

[TQA]

With 50 to 70% of the the big charter cats destroyed or badly damaged I think there will be a hardening of price for that sort of boat.

I think the supply of older monohulls is still plentiful so no change there.

As to the Caribbean being a scary place, yes it is if you stay North of St Lucia during hurricane season and North of Grenada during peak hurricane season.

 

[geem]

I dont believe prices will vary at all. The market for large catamarans is global. The relative cost of shipping a cat in or out of the Caribbean is small when compared to the huge price of late model large catamarans. I would not buy a repaired hurricane damaged catamaran or monohull unless there was a photographic record of the repair. After hurricane Ivan in 04 we saw some terrible repairs undertaken by individuals who had bought insurance right offs to make a quick buck. I am sure there will be a lot of this going on.

 

[srm]

If you are a serious buyer the only reliable answer is to go there on the first flight in, look, see, ask, and have a wad of ready cash.

 

[TQA]

There was an interview with a US broker. He said that the big charter companies have booked ALL production slots for big charter type cats to 2019 - 2020.

If true this has to force the price of used ones up.

 

[AndrewB]

Pleased to see you are still alive and kicking, tcm.

From the pictures of the mess I'm guessing you might do better to salvage several of the wrecks, to have enough working parts to put together one yacht, rather than bid on one of the few intact survivors.

 

[tcm]

There was an interview with a US broker. He said that the big charter companies have booked ALL production slots for big charter type cats to 2019 - 2020.

If true this has to force the price of used ones up.

Well okay... altho to quote someone else ... “he would say that, wouldn’t he?"

 

[TQA]

Well okay... altho to quote someone else ... “he would say that, wouldn’t he?"

Easy enough to check with a few phone calls. Anyway it seems logical that the big operators will want to replace their fleet ASAP.

 

[Heckler]

Easy enough to check with a few phone calls. Anyway it seems logical that the big operators will want to replace their fleet ASAP.

As I understand it, the "fleet" belongs to individuals much as Tranona used to be.
Stu

 

[KellysEye]

>Any idea what proportion of boats have been destroyed or seriously damaged?

Dream yachts in the BVI's 99% seriously damaged only one is OK, Sunsail similar, as told by Dream yachts at the Southampton show.

 

[Kelpie]

What about infrastructure damage? Nobody is going to want to charter a yacht if there are no marinas, moorings, or even the non boaty stuff like hotels, shops, airports functioning. I wonder how long it's going to take to fix all of that to the point where a tourism industry can get going again?

 

[Tranona]

As I understand it, the "fleet" belongs to individuals much as Tranona used to be.
Stu

It varies, but in a sense irrelevant as it will be insurance that will be funding much of the replacement whether privately owned or company. The private ownership management contracts include insurance. I wonder whether some owners particularly of older boats may just take a settlement if they are able to and either bail out or enter into a contract with a new boat.

 

[Heckler]

It varies, but in a sense irrelevant as it will be insurance that will be funding much of the replacement whether privately owned or company. The private ownership management contracts include insurance. I wonder whether some owners particularly of older boats may just take a settlement if they are able to and either bail out or enter into a contract with a new boat.

A first hand contact told me that the insurance for a 52ft cat was $8000 US per annum because of where and when they kept them.
Stu

 

[Sybarite]

A broker said that the lack of supply of boats (loads smashed in the hurricanes) could drive prices up. But on the other hand ... there could easily be a "ooer, the Caribbean is a scary and smashed up place" factor that drives prices down. What does anyone think, I wonder?

After the Oct 87 hurricane the person who sold me my boat bought two Sun Legende 41's which were insurance write-offs at Concarneau. His comment : "Modern hulls are like plasticine. In one month's time these boats will be like new. It just means whipping the furniture our, repairing the hull and putting the furniture back in."