William_H
Well-known member
Of course a connection rudder tiller to motor tiller will give huge maneuverability while keeping prop clear of rudder. Or just be very careful ol'will
Yet another which boat thread (Small Trailer Sailer)
- Thread starter andyb28
- Start date
A_Sails_Pace
Member
Great informative thread. Dare I mention the Hurley? I'm currently downsizing and I've been looking at the Parker 21s and the Jag 21s but I've been spying a few Hurley 22s, and some of them have that nice classic look to them? Any views appreciated. I won't even get started on my internal mental battles between lifting keel and bilge keel.
Tranona
Well-known member
Big yacht scaled down rather than dinghy scaled up so very different from a trailer sailer. Popular in the day when miniature (relatively) offshore yachts were in vogue, but cramped below and best in demanding conditions. Most had outboards in a well behind the rudder which made them very much an auxiliary.
JerryRhum
Member
Mirror offshore (not my photo). Good for single handing. Only 19ft. definitely falls in to the 'cheap and cheerful' category. N.B I have never had mine under sale, so I can't comment on performance etc.
Snowgoose-1
Active member
Hurley is a fantastic boat. A friend had one but quite slow under sail.
mrming
Well-known member
The Red Fox 200e, later marketed as the Hunter 20, is an interesting boat in this category. It has a flat bottom for drying out, and twin daggerboards, so no keel casing in the accommodation. I also like the Hunter Minstrel as it has a gunter rig which makes the spars much easier to handle. Given there is no requirement for actual trailer sailing, if going a bit larger, a Super Seal 26 (later tweaked and sold as the Parker 27/275) is also a great boat with a flat bottom.
DownWest
Well-known member
Nice additions, the Red Fox always appealed, as did the Minstral either in the cat ketch or gunter versions.
There was also a slightly racey version of the Fox, bigger cockpit with minimal cabin.
A_Sails_Pace
Member
I'm now swaying towards a cheeky little Hunter Medina I have seen. After initially not being sure about the ol' lifting keels I'm really coming around to the idea. Had my heart set on a bilge keel but actually there seems to be more options available to me at the moment regarding lifting keels, and the Medina looks nice.
Could I kindly ask for 2 bits of advice?
1) The obvious one first. The Medina? Trustworthy boat? Worth a purchase? (for costal sailing really, venturing around a few shallows on occasion. Not even necessarily rigging and sailing constantly. Likely on a mooring for the season).
2) My previous boat was a fixed/fin keel. I'm still trying to understand what risks there are, if any, with the lifting keel? Whatever mechanisms are in place to prevent them falling out; are these trustworthy? Anything in particular to watch out for, or are they generally safe?
Thanks.
A.S.P
Could I kindly ask for 2 bits of advice?
1) The obvious one first. The Medina? Trustworthy boat? Worth a purchase? (for costal sailing really, venturing around a few shallows on occasion. Not even necessarily rigging and sailing constantly. Likely on a mooring for the season).
2) My previous boat was a fixed/fin keel. I'm still trying to understand what risks there are, if any, with the lifting keel? Whatever mechanisms are in place to prevent them falling out; are these trustworthy? Anything in particular to watch out for, or are they generally safe?
Thanks.
A.S.P
Tranona
Well-known member
Hunters and their designer David Thomas were arguably the leaders in building this type of sporty lift keel boat. Generally speaking the major distinction between this type of boat and most bilge keel and fixed keel boats is that they are essentially light displacement grown up "dinghy" types rather than scaled down yachts. However the shape provides good form stability and the ballasted keel good overall stability and ability to carry sail. Light weight means they can be trailered by mid size cars and launched from the trailer, although not something you would want to do frequently. The lifting mechanism stops the keel from falling out and provided it is maintained properly is reliable.
AEMD
Member
I was in this sort of situation a few years ago, having had an Evolution 19, then changed for a Newbridge Venturer lift keel ( which sailed very well with new sails ).
My short list to replace the Newbridge included Jeanneau Tonic, Beneteau First 235, Hunter Horizon 23 ( not the American Hunters ) Hunter Sonata lift keel, Gibsea 242 ( too wide I seem to remember ) and a few others on your list. Not trailer sailers more trailerable cruisers. However, as I wanted to be able to spend overnights in comparative comfort I eventually bought a Leisure 23SL bilge keel - it was cheap and in ridiculously good condition. Considered 'stodgy' as a performer by some, I reckon it goes well, but once again, it's sails were pretty much new, so maybe that's why - and best of all you can stand upright inside it - I am 5ft 9. I have it on a trailer so I can tow it home over the winter, but it is quite a beast and you need a serious 4x4, all up weight with the outboard and batteries etc. is pushing 3000kgs. I towed her 1000 miles from Windemere to our home near Bordeaux, & we ( and the dog ) slept three nights in her on the way.
The Beneteau 235 is a really nice boat, Jeanneau Tonic also well thought of. Friends had a Hunter Horizon 23 and it was a super boat sailed extremely well, but a bilge keel.
There's also the Evolution 22, the Red Fox, which is only 20ft and hard to find but very capacious inside because of the twin lifting keels. I expect you know about width restrictions on trailer regs - but some of the trailerable boats people mention will have a beam over the 'official' width. I think the Hunter Sonata was on limits, so the Duette would be the same. A friend used to tow his Evolution 26 down to the south coast for holidays, he said he had some pretty hairy moments on the road, I think it was over 9ft beam !
Hope you find a good boat !
My short list to replace the Newbridge included Jeanneau Tonic, Beneteau First 235, Hunter Horizon 23 ( not the American Hunters ) Hunter Sonata lift keel, Gibsea 242 ( too wide I seem to remember ) and a few others on your list. Not trailer sailers more trailerable cruisers. However, as I wanted to be able to spend overnights in comparative comfort I eventually bought a Leisure 23SL bilge keel - it was cheap and in ridiculously good condition. Considered 'stodgy' as a performer by some, I reckon it goes well, but once again, it's sails were pretty much new, so maybe that's why - and best of all you can stand upright inside it - I am 5ft 9. I have it on a trailer so I can tow it home over the winter, but it is quite a beast and you need a serious 4x4, all up weight with the outboard and batteries etc. is pushing 3000kgs. I towed her 1000 miles from Windemere to our home near Bordeaux, & we ( and the dog ) slept three nights in her on the way.
The Beneteau 235 is a really nice boat, Jeanneau Tonic also well thought of. Friends had a Hunter Horizon 23 and it was a super boat sailed extremely well, but a bilge keel.
There's also the Evolution 22, the Red Fox, which is only 20ft and hard to find but very capacious inside because of the twin lifting keels. I expect you know about width restrictions on trailer regs - but some of the trailerable boats people mention will have a beam over the 'official' width. I think the Hunter Sonata was on limits, so the Duette would be the same. A friend used to tow his Evolution 26 down to the south coast for holidays, he said he had some pretty hairy moments on the road, I think it was over 9ft beam !
Hope you find a good boat !
MisterBaxter
Well-known member
The Medina is a great boat, very simple and reliable keel mechanism as I recall so I wouldn't worry too much about that.
There's also the Hunter Horizon 21, same hull but twin keels and self tacking jib, which also looks like a very nice little boat.
There's also the Hunter Horizon 21, same hull but twin keels and self tacking jib, which also looks like a very nice little boat.
westernman
Well-known member
No way is 9ft beam road legal anywhere.
ProDave
Well-known member
I can join the thread as we have just bought a Hunter Horizon 23. Our main "must haves" were standing headroom (we are only short people), sleeping for 4, a proper heads in it's own compartment with a door for privacy, and a galley. And bilge keels for a drying harbour. The HH23 ticks all those boxes. and is one of the smallest boats that does.
Initial findings, it sails as well as we expected, but we are still learning how to manoeuvre it in the harbour. The outboard in a well offset to port makes for a boat that does not even think about steering until you have some way on. No problem getting onto our berth forwards, but until we learn all it's quirks, coming out backwards is "interesting"
In that respect for harbour manoeuvring astern you could not better our previous boat a Leisure 17. Skeg hung rudder and transom mounted OB on the centreline. You just point both rudder and OB to where you want to go and it goes there. There is a lot to praise that arrangement.
As already noted, the HH23 is a derivative of the Sonata and Duette sharing the same hull, but with a different cabin for better cruising accommodation, and a smaller rig better suited to cruising rather than racing.
I would not consider this a trailerable boat myself.
If you still want trailerable and can tolerate sitting head room only, etc then the L17 is a good little boat and I can tell you more about them if interested.
Initial findings, it sails as well as we expected, but we are still learning how to manoeuvre it in the harbour. The outboard in a well offset to port makes for a boat that does not even think about steering until you have some way on. No problem getting onto our berth forwards, but until we learn all it's quirks, coming out backwards is "interesting"
In that respect for harbour manoeuvring astern you could not better our previous boat a Leisure 17. Skeg hung rudder and transom mounted OB on the centreline. You just point both rudder and OB to where you want to go and it goes there. There is a lot to praise that arrangement.
As already noted, the HH23 is a derivative of the Sonata and Duette sharing the same hull, but with a different cabin for better cruising accommodation, and a smaller rig better suited to cruising rather than racing.
I would not consider this a trailerable boat myself.
If you still want trailerable and can tolerate sitting head room only, etc then the L17 is a good little boat and I can tell you more about them if interested.
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Skylark
Well-known member
Many years ago, I had a Swift 18 trailer sailer. At that time, it was equivalent to an Anderson 22, a Fulmar and a Trintella 44, in other words, perfect for every circumstance hence couldn’t be bettered.
seumask
Well-known member
We had a Hunter Medina, lovely and simple and upgraded it to the Hunter Delta 25 for 5 years. So I and would strongly recommend you look at one of them. Same flush bottom lifting keel arrangement with all the ballast in the keel. We had some excellent sailing, with all the ballast in the keel (400kg IIRC) it went very well to windward with the good righting moment a deep keel gives you and planned off wind with a decent breeze. Engine lifted into a locker with a flush plate also significantly enhanced the sailing and made the engine use easy from the cockpit.
We crossed the channel several times in it, including reaching home in a F6 from the channel Islands, a great boat IMHO.
We crossed the channel several times in it, including reaching home in a F6 from the channel Islands, a great boat IMHO.
LiftyK
Well-known member
Also consider the Parker 235. I know a few owners and they are well pleased. The 21 and the 235 both dry out flat, with no keel protruding. I used to have a 21 and launched and recovered each weekend. Great boat. Longest trip was Le Havre to Poole.
Jim@sea
Well-known member
A couple of years ago I came across a Hunter Legend 240 which was up for sale near me and after checking it over the friend I go sailing with bought it.
It certainly seems that these boats have shot up in price recently. There is one for sale at Maiden Marine at Windermere.
The boat I bought was a 1997 and in outstanding condition and still had the original Tohatsu 6 hp 2 stroke. outboard.
Lifting Keel with water ballast.
I imagine that most of these Hunter Legends are of the same condition as the build quality is superb.
I would also mention that the American Trailers they came over on are superb although some may not have brakes. On the one we had it had a recent new braked axle, although as the boat had never left a lake since new the tyres were 34 years old. The metal that the trailer is made of would put british made trailers to shame.
I would mention that I know my way round boats, in 1973 I had a New Conway 26, 1978 New Moody 30. 1980 New Princess 33 (returned due to fraud) , 1982 1973 Nauticat 33 (which had osmosis
2000 Drascombe Lugger. 2006 1986 French Guy Couch Peche Promenade. 2012 Bayliner 16ft Speedboat. 2021 Hunter Legend 240.
Anyone thinking of buying a trailer sailer should certainly consider one.
It certainly seems that these boats have shot up in price recently. There is one for sale at Maiden Marine at Windermere.
The boat I bought was a 1997 and in outstanding condition and still had the original Tohatsu 6 hp 2 stroke. outboard.
Lifting Keel with water ballast.
I imagine that most of these Hunter Legends are of the same condition as the build quality is superb.
I would also mention that the American Trailers they came over on are superb although some may not have brakes. On the one we had it had a recent new braked axle, although as the boat had never left a lake since new the tyres were 34 years old. The metal that the trailer is made of would put british made trailers to shame.
I would mention that I know my way round boats, in 1973 I had a New Conway 26, 1978 New Moody 30. 1980 New Princess 33 (returned due to fraud) , 1982 1973 Nauticat 33 (which had osmosis
2000 Drascombe Lugger. 2006 1986 French Guy Couch Peche Promenade. 2012 Bayliner 16ft Speedboat. 2021 Hunter Legend 240.
Anyone thinking of buying a trailer sailer should certainly consider one.
Wansworth
Well-known member
A_Sails_Pace
Member
Keeping with the "which boat" theme, I've been looking at the Jag 21s. Something I can't quite get my head around though - the two I have viewed have the mainsheet's block attached to a line that spreads out to either side of the cockpit footwell area. They aren't attached to a traveller/track. With the forces that the mainsail has to deal with I can't help but think this may be of concern? Am I overthinking this? Does anyone with experience of the Jaguar 21s have any thoughts on this? I like the J21s, a lot, otherwise.
Geoff Wode
Active member
Another Horizon 23 owner here.
I was looking for similar characteristics to the OP before I bought mine. It’s a viable proposition for four people. It sails better than many comparable boats. It’s cheap to run and easy to work on. Someone mentioned the rig is smaller than the Sonata. I’m not sure that it is. The mast is longer for a start and is a more substantial section with aft swept spreaders. The high aspect main is larger and although the self tacking foresail (brilliant single handed) is tiny, mine came with an overlapping genoa for light winds and cruising chute and symmetrical spinnaker. It’s a more modern style rig. Very easy to handle.
They started building them in ‘89 and most were produced in the ‘90s. A step up would be a 245 (still a 23) which has an inboard 1gm10, as did a handful of HH23s.
I’m very happy with mine and although it has a trailer and I have towed it, it is in no way a trailer sailer and requires a crane in.
I was looking for similar characteristics to the OP before I bought mine. It’s a viable proposition for four people. It sails better than many comparable boats. It’s cheap to run and easy to work on. Someone mentioned the rig is smaller than the Sonata. I’m not sure that it is. The mast is longer for a start and is a more substantial section with aft swept spreaders. The high aspect main is larger and although the self tacking foresail (brilliant single handed) is tiny, mine came with an overlapping genoa for light winds and cruising chute and symmetrical spinnaker. It’s a more modern style rig. Very easy to handle.
They started building them in ‘89 and most were produced in the ‘90s. A step up would be a 245 (still a 23) which has an inboard 1gm10, as did a handful of HH23s.
I’m very happy with mine and although it has a trailer and I have towed it, it is in no way a trailer sailer and requires a crane in.
