Yet another DS practical question

[LittleSister]

For sure there's value in learning from other experienced people, but I do think it's essential somewhere along the way to practice directing novice crew. . .

When I referred to learning from my experienced colleagues on my course, I was primarily meaning in terms of their experience and conduct as skippers: how they managed the crew and the boat, rather them just as experienced crew.

I am sceptical about your use of the phrase 'directing' applied to novice (or even experienced) crew. Probably the main thing I learnt from my Coastal Skipper course (apart from what a wide variety of techniques and approaches there are for every boat handling challenge) is that running a boat well, safely and happily requires managing, rather than simply directing, the crew.

I agree there is value in having some guided practise in managing (and developing) a novice crew, but you will get practise in managing and mentoring a novice crew (albeit without the guidance) as soon as you get one. It's relatively easy to do, I think, in part. (Though I do think there are some people who are inherently good at it, some who inherently most unsuited to it, and a lot of us who could be better at it with some guidance, practise, and reflection.

I think dealing with an experienced crew can, and often will, be much more challenging to make the most of. I think it's worth bearing in mind that crew aren't just either experienced or not: there are a whole variety of experiences (and knowledges and attitudes), not just one.

Experienced people might politely ignore small imprecisions and inaccuracies in your instructions if they already know what you "meant to say" . .

Therein lies one of the dangers/challenges of having experienced crew! They mistakenly think they know what you meant, or do know and have 'better' ideas and are going to try to implement them, rather than what you were intending and thought they were about to do.

Not only that, the blighters might well actually know (or do) better than you in some (though probably not all) regards, and taking advantage of their strengths, rather than getting defensive about it, is part of one's job as skipper. Keeping an eye out for and allowing for their weaknesses and gaps in their knowledge (worse when they're not aware of it themselves) has to run alongside that.

. . . Given the choice, I'd far rather learn to work with novices under the "protection" of an instructor and then go sailing with other experienced skippers - than the other way around.

I would be concerned that one might spend too much time on training and allowing for novices, rather than doing more advanced/demanding boat handling, navigation/planning, and learning from other experienced people aboard. But I've never been in that situation on a course, so don't really know.

 

[wonkywinch]

We went in there during our week, just as was getting dark, tide ebbing to the lowest for many decades (and hence risk of getting seriously neaped if we went aground).

Minor point of order, you get neaped running aground at the top of a spring tide. If you run aground on the ebb, you might only have to wait 20 minutes to float off again.

 

[LittleSister]

Minor point of order, you get neaped running aground at the top of a spring tide. If you run aground on the ebb, you might only have to wait 20 minutes to float off again.

You are correct. My error.

 

[Skylark]

I think if you failed to gain a completion certificate after a DS or CS course then you either turned up completely unprepared or the instructor was crap.

There are a lot of reasons why a student fails to gain a course completion certificate after a course. The common one, in my experience, is poor Shorebased knowledge, specifically applying that knowledge to the practical environment.

A lot of people read the pre-course paperwork that likely says something along the lines of “it is not necessary to have done the Shorebased course……” but fail to read on “but you are expected to have knowledge equivalent to having done it”

Re your later comment, some people do not leave the course with a Comp Crew certificate.

Instructors may be crap, in your view, but they must uphold the standards. Not everyone has the aptitude to sail despite focused instruction. People learn in different ways and at different rates.

I had a very rewarding career within engineering and now in retirement I do a bit of instruction. It, too, is remarkably rewarding but something would be wrong if there was a 100% conversion rate for all courses.