Yes, a marina berthing question!

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reyes

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Hi all,

I appreciate some questions have been asked about berthing etc. but I have a very specific scenario I'm not finding a great deal of information on.

Here's a scenario, selected because it seems to have repeatedly been the case;

- I have a finger pontoon berth
- I go out, have some sailing fun, and return
- On returning, the direction of the tide is into my berth

Having seen this video just now (in case this answered it prior to me posting), he talks about crabbing up the marina aisle -- makes sense. Were my berth on the up-tide side, that would be all good. However, based on my scenario, what approach do you take to berth when you don't have time to wait for the tide to turn, and will therefore be being pushed into your berth?

Some approaches that I've either or thought about to gain feedback on:

- Crab in in reverse and do a stronger turn to go stern-to -- I feel slightly nervous at the thought of this one.
- Crab in forwards, control rotation to face into tide, and do a controlled reverse into the berth, using very very light power to control being pushed and to provide steerage. -- I haven't seen this anywhere but I thought it feels potentially viable?
- Crab in, initiate a larger turn with some decent momentum for the turn to prevent being pushed sideways when the tide is abeam.

FYI: my boat is a 33ft Bavaria, fin keel.

As always, thanks in advance for any thoughts!
 
Hmm, that’s a tricky one. Are you/marina in a sheltered spot or are you fully at the mercy of the wind? And do you have a bow thruster?
 
The video is an excellent example of ferry gliding (I'm surprised he said crabbing instead), where you motor into the tide, such that your speed through the water equals the tide against you, and your speed over the ground is zero. You can then get the boat moving sideways in a controlled manner. It seems you want to reverse into your berth. I would therefore ferry glide forwards along the run of berths, until your berth is behind you. At this point, turn directly into the tide, and slow down your forward motion such that your speed thru the water is a little less than the tide. At this point the boat will be moving backwards over the ground into the berth, but will still be going forwards as far as steering is concerned. You'll obviously have your lines and fenders ready before starting. As you drop (very slowly) into the berth, the crew can step onto the pontoon and should get the stern spring and bow line on as priorities, and you're safely moored.

Don't be tempted to positively reverse into the berth - you'll lose all steering until you are actually moving through the water backwards (and therefore travelling quickly over the ground) by which point you'll have hit something.

Don't get yourself sideways to the tide - you'll quickly be pushed onto the down tide boats. You only need the bow 10 - 20 degrees to one side of the tidal flow to ferry glide sideways. You'll find you'll need very little drive, unless the tide is very strong; a few seconds in forwards every so often, and then back to neutral. You'll also want to practice ferry gliding in relatively open water, before trying it in the tight confines of a marina.

If the wind is strong, this probably won't work, for a number of reasons, depending where the wind is coming from.

Note getting into a finger berth with the tide pushing you in is very difficult. Our boat sustained damage a few years ago when the boat next door hit us in this situation. At the time the owner (who was new to boating) had booked a days own boat tuition with a reputable local school. The Yachtmaster Instructor (having presumably clocked it was too difficult for the client) was the one doing the mooring, and was responsible for the bump. No I'm not going to name and shame, as accidents happen, and the school were very good at paying for the damage to be fixed. I guess what I'm saying is there's no shame in asking the marina for a temporary berth pointing the other way for a few hours, and move the boat once the tide is slack.
 
If your boat is anything like my HR 34 of similar size, a lot depends on the wind direction as well as the tide. With reasonable conditions I would approach the finger slowly at an angle to counter the tide and when near enough make a turn to face into the berth before checking my motion in astern gear. As it happens, my boat handles easily going astern and I should be able to bring the boat to a virtual stop while maintaining steerage way and then let the boat slide into the berth as I reduce the throttle. Normally this should be dead easy while looking rather smart. Almost all of the fingers I have entered have been current-free, but I have done what I describe in places such as Treguier without difficulty.

On the other hand, if there is anything much in the way of wind coming from the direction of my berth I would find this impossible with my combination of saildrive and limited rudder angle. In this case I would do the reverse and turn away from the berth and let the boat weathercock into position to enter stern first.
 
Oh, ferry gliding. Makes sense now. Option 2 of the three suggested gets my vote. You’ll end up stern in, so a bow line or short midships on first if possible, stop you going in too far. Nothing wrong with using power to stop / slow you. Wind could be a factor.
 
wonkywinch said:
We are near the middle of the river at Mercury on the Hamble, I time all our trips to avoid the last two hours of the ebb as it's too difficult to park with the current running straight into our berth.
Click to expand...
When I first bought this boat -- lo, these many years go -- I kept her in Swanwick Marina, where I bought her, for the first 1 1/2 years. Desperado, the famous Swan, was my pontoon mate. I learned the very hard way to do just as you do, at the cost of a smashed nav light, bent pulpit, and other mayhem.

The problem is that if you have a couple of knots of tide running, then when you slow the boat to come into your slip, you lose steerage. Dead in the water with no steerage, and closing on the pontoon at 2 knots. Not good.

The opposite situation, with the tide running against you, is a dream, with steerage available even at 0 knots SOG.

I guess this is pretty basic knowledge for you guys who grew up here. But for someone whose previous sailing experience was all in the U.S., Caribbean, and Med, it was a pretty rude shock.
 
As always, thanks very much for all of the feedback.

It's happened 3 times in a row at Hamble Point marina. The other evening, I was going bow-to after judging the tide wasn't too strong, started my turn and quickly realised I was too slow and began drifting. I made a positive burst of reverse after checking my shoulder, and then a more positive one where I saw I had clearance to exit the aisle and start again. The follow-up went well, but there was next to no wind.

As I've typed this it's made me ponder:

- What if a decent wind was coming from my berth?
- Conversely, what if it had have been coming from the same side as the tide?

In both situations, it still feels like option 2 (which appears to be getting the vote out of any) to be the most controlled.

What's interesting is I did a marina skills day a couple of weeks ago and actually berthing on fingers didn't make the to-do list (except for one effort by one person as the very last manoeuvre stern-to into tide on the outermost finger).
 
I have a bow thruster which makes life easier but another option is to ferry glide in reverse into the fairway and turn further into the tide as you approach the berth (while still in reverse). The boat will hang in the water and pivot in the tide and then you slow the bows in entry with reverse, while maintaining constant steerage. All bets are off though if its blowing a hooley
 
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reyes said:
- What if a decent wind was coming from my berth?
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Option 2*, because one should avoid backing with the wind if at all possible.

* I believe this is ferry-gliding up the fairway, putting the bow into the tide, and using prop wash or motoring forward at slower than the current, yes?
reyes said:
- Conversely, what if it had have been coming from the same side as the tide?
Click to expand...
Depending on the wind, I would consider instead going bow in and motoring in reverse to control the speed. But this feels riskier as you have less steerage and there's a greater risk of getting caught sideways. Consider going back out for a few hours instead.

Ah... you didn't mention... single or twin rudder?
 
requiem said:
Option 2*, because one should avoid backing with the wind if at all possible.

* I believe this is ferry-gliding up the fairway, putting the bow into the tide, and using prop wash or motoring forward at slower than the current, yes?

Depending on the wind, I would consider instead going bow in and motoring in reverse to control the speed. But this feels riskier as you have less steerage and there's a greater risk of getting caught sideways. Consider going back out for a few hours instead.

Ah... you didn't mention... single or twin rudder?
Click to expand...

It's single rudder; also, to answer somebody else: no bow thruster!

I do like the idea of using reverse to slow the entry to the berth, effectively this being the inverse of option 2 then...

I'd be nervous if there was a crosswind with this, as it feels like the bow could easily blow off?

Also, and I can't see the thread now I'm typing this, is there a general rule of thumb for bow- or stern-to based on wind or does tide always win? My understanding was tide really always wins (unless there isn't any really)...
 
I suspect a large fender at end of berth and a bow fender on your boat are going to reduce your worries. Assuming you have a crew a short line to stop you might help midships?
 
reyes said:
I do like the idea of using reverse to slow the entry to the berth, effectively this being the inverse of option 2 then...
Click to expand...
Reversing down tide or downwind without a bow thruster generally doesn't end well, unless you are confident to do it at speed, so this (quote above) could potentially be a much better option for you given how well you boat steers in reverse. Just make sure you have a few practice runs in the river before entering the fairway :-)
 
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It's important to understand that until the rudder has water flowing over it, you won't be able to steer with it.

If the tide is moving in the direction you are going, then your SOG needs to exceed the speed of the current so the rudder works. On my boat, a twin rudder AWB, the rudder is ineffective until c 0.75 to 1 knot through the water.

With a following tide in close quarters, your SOG can look very alarming and of course increasing potential energy should you make contact with any static objects in the vicinity.

It's well worth practising boat handling at minimum speeds in tidal waters to experience this and see the effect of drift etc.

If you haven't already seen it, I recommend James Pearson's "The Big Five of Boat Handling" - https://www.hamble.co.uk/pdfs/seamanship.pdf

Have a practise of reversing your boat in a figure of eight around two adjacent (vacant) buoys in a tidal stream to build confidence and experiment gradually lowering the speed so you're on the edge of rudder authority.
 
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I don’t have the tide as an issue, but my boat has more windage fwd than aft so weather cocks quite quickly with the bow being blown down wind. I therefore choose to most of my manoeuvres such that my bow is downwind and use astern to control boat speed. I guess the same is true for tide and would think Amonite’s solution would work. If there’s wind and tide, then you’d have to work out which predominates but it might be that some berths are unenterable in certain conditions in certain boats
 
boomerangben said:
.. but my boat has more windage fwd than aft so weather cocks quite quickly with the bow being blown down wind.
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Most yachts do. You've got a load of stuff dangling in the water from midships to the stern, a big keel, a rudder or two and possibly a saildrive.

And nothing up front. The bow will always tend to blow off since it's the point of least resistance especially once the speed drops.
 
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