Yanmar Starting Problems

[awol]

Right you smarty pants, I know you are ready to tell me that multi starter button pushes are a common Yanmar problem caused by bad connectors and thin wiring and the sure answer is a secondary solenoid or a push-switch close to the motor. But after fannying around removing panels, breaking and making connectors, and not making an iota of difference I connected the power and solenoid terminal at the solenoid and ...... still nothing but a click. A short across the big terminals produced a satisfactory arc and the motor working so I have a solenoid that clicks but doesn't close its contacts.

Manual operation shows occasional connection but it definitely ain't happy. I can't see a way in to the contacts - I am considering fitting a mini-solenoid across the terminals, I could just short the terminals, or I could buy a new motor. Anyone got a better answer?

 

[KenMcCulloch]

We just had our starter motor refurbished, cost £60 which is a lot less than a new one. Different engine but similar problem by the sound of it.

 

[pampas]

Not every auto electrical work shop has the tooling to withdraw the insulated bridge piece. since your solenoid has failed I would as stated above, take to any repair shop and get it overhauled (Complete starter) it will be as good as new at 1/4 if the price.

 

[sailorman]

I think Jimi is the gen kiddy on these engines

 

[xeitosaphil]

Right you smarty pants, I know you are ready to tell me that multi starter button pushes are a common Yanmar problem caused by bad connectors and thin wiring and the sure answer is a secondary solenoid or a push-switch close to the motor. But after fannying around removing panels, breaking and making connectors, and not making an iota of difference I connected the power and solenoid terminal at the solenoid and ...... still nothing but a click. A short across the big terminals produced a satisfactory arc and the motor working so I have a solenoid that clicks but doesn't close its contacts.

Manual operation shows occasional connection but it definitely ain't happy. I can't see a way in to the contacts - I am considering fitting a mini-solenoid across the terminals, I could just short the terminals, or I could buy a new motor. Anyone got a better answer?

My engine Yanmar 2GM 20, engine panel simple type, 3 x warning lights ignition switch and buzzer, no tacho.

I had the exact same problem last year and as part of my engine wiring update in the last month, decided to address this problem. Having read loads of posts on different web sites the general consensus is to replace the feed wire from the ignition switch to the starter solenoid from the normal original supplied gauge wire to 10AWG wire. That is the white wire from the back of theignition switch to the starter solenoid which is on the side of the solenoid, and also the red positive feed wire to the solenoid from the ignition switch.

Can’t find the link to the article at the moment but if you decide to do it will try and look it out. Having done this, the engine starts first time every time , no problems.

This is assuming that you don't have a problem with the starter motor? I thought for the sake of a few quid on wire, it was worth a go and has now solved the problem.

I also had to re-instate the 30A inline fuse in the red wire for the upgraded 10AWG wire gauge.

 

[emnick]

Had a similar problem on our 3jh3e, turning the key sometimes started the engine other time it just clicked. There is a small relay bolted under the starter (not the starter solenoid) I found that it was a small ring connector crimp that was the problem this is the small wire from this relay to the starter.

Hope this helps

 

[awol]

We just had our starter motor refurbished, cost £60 which is a lot less than a new one. Different engine but similar problem by the sound of it.

Was it an Edinburgh refurbisher by any chance?

 

[blackbeard]

Yanmar 1GM starting problems have been a bit of a PITA on my boat for the last several years, although the engine has (so far) always started eventually.

Worth getting your starter motor checked but it's possible that it might be OK. Apparently it's been known for the contacts in the solenoid to get a bit burned, and not pass enough currently, if they don't close with sufficient force (ie not enough volts over several starting cycles), if you try often enough you will eventually find a clean bit of contacts and the engine will then start. Or something like that. Problem is solved temporarily by a new solenoid but, if there is still resistance in the starting circuit, problem will eventually recur. If you sort out the starting circuit, the solenoid may eventually start to work properly. Maybe.

As a general comment, there does seem to be a problem in the design of the starting circuit in that even a small amount of resistance, introduced by a slightly iffy contact somewhere, produces this sort of problem.

I will add to the list of the many components which have been known to give trouble. 30 A fuse holder, poor contacts therein, for one, so it's worth giving these a clean, not forgetting contacts on the fuse itself.

I have also found a problem with the "ignition" switch, which can develop of resistance when nominally switched on of an ohm or two, enough to prevent the solenoid contacts from contacting fully. The switch is designed so you can't open it, so open it, hunt for the springs and ball bearings that jump out, and give the contacts a clean, then reassemble. Do this somewhere where bits don't fall down inaccessible crevices such as cockpit drains. I suppose you could just replace it by an ordinary switch capable of handling a reasonable number of amps ...

Or you might have been right first time, could be a starter motor problem.

Have fun. A multimeter is your friend. Assume that, whatever you do, the problem will go away, and you will relax safe in the knowledge that you have fixed it. Problem will then recur ...

 

[KenMcCulloch]

Was it an Edinburgh refurbisher by any chance?

It was a bloke in Dunfermline. I don't have the contact details as it wasn't me who arranged it, sorry.

 

[ParaHandy]

Yanmar 1GM starting problems have been a bit of a PITA on my boat for the last several years, although the engine has (so far) always started eventually..

I put a post up here 12 years ago and I thought I was the only one .... My engine's a 3GM. Yanmar at Bursledon know there are a few out there with this problem; they reckon that the engine stops at roughly the same place, just before TDC on one of the cyclinders, and, such is the resistance, the engine is eased over the compression each time it clicks until eventually it gets a clear swing at it and starts. I tested this theory by filming the crank pulley and I'm doubtful as the pulley doesn't move at all.

The engine does always start although once, with a spring tide trying to land me on a solid cardinal, it would have been good if it had sprung into life a touch quicker.

It has never failed though to start which makes me think that the genius who recommends the thicker wire from the push button to the starter solenoid might have the answer. I'm tempted to run a wire directly off the battery, through another push button direct to the starter solenoid, see how that goes.

To date, after several occasions of very careful cleaning of the starter solenoid chamber (instant success for a few days), replacement of the starter and complete renewal of all DC power and ground wiring from the battery to the starter, nothing has worked.

The one good bit of news might be that those who suffer from this, have excellent compression. A pal has the most shagged 3GM you've ever seen, it smelt and unburnt fuel poured out of it, but, the starter motor always worked.

 

[awol]

In extremis, banging a spanner across the solenoid terminals has always worked for me. Sometimes tries to weld itself to the studs, usually produces scary sparks, but the engine turns over and goes which has not been guaranteed with the button.

The possibly good news, though I doubt if it will last, is that my motor now seems to work on the bench every time. By loosening off the fixing nuts on the solenoid studs there was a bit of waggle movement so I waggled them vigorously against what I presumed was the contact bar. I also ran some WD40 down the stud threads with no logical reasoning but just 'cos it was on the bench. Quite unreasonable success was the result! I am now a highly skilled starter motor stripper and reckon I could do it blindfold - must add that to my cv!

 

[KenMcCulloch]

I am now a highly skilled starter motor stripper and reckon I could do it blindfold - must add that to my cv!

I think you coukld legitimately call yourself a terminal waggler but a highly skilled starter stripper will have far more experience to call on. If we need any terminals waggling we know who to call. Orra best.

 

[charles_reed]

The starter on 1GM, 2GM and 3GM are, I am told, the same unit. Possibly the 3 cylinder engine is too much for the starter?
Usually, problems are not in the starter motor but the solenoid or the energising wire feeding that.

It does seem to be a particular recurrent problem with Yanmars - I had it with the 2GM and cured it by replacing the feed wire energising the solenoid.

On the 3YM it's even more frustrating - the female tab connection from switch to solenoid keeps on falling off the spade terminal.
There's not quite enough room to get one's hand in to put it back on again and replacing the wire and terminal means taking out the engine to access the thing. It's happened to me 4 times in 1857.9 hours of use.

A long time ago I discovered that engines always have a habit of packing up when you need them - forcing me to perfect the art of anchoring, entering marinas and tying up under sail. The sailing bit is the easy one - singlehanded, tying up, especially end-on is rather challenging.

 

[vyv_cox]

The problem is a common one on air-cooled VW vans, which have a starter motor similar to the Yanmar one. It seems it is caused by excessive resistance in the wiring, which of course on a VW comes from the battery at the back, forward to the starter switch, then back to the engine at the rear. I replaced the starter switch on mine, which had no noticeable effect. I then ran a new wire directly back from the starter switch to the starter solenoid, which fixed it totally.

I have read that there are some connectors and/or components within the Yanmar wiring loom that can contribute to the excessive resistance. Otherwise, the suggestion to replace the white wire from switch to solenoid seems the course to take.

 

[xeitosaphil]

My engine Yanmar 2GM 20, engine panel simple type, 3 x warning lights ignition switch and buzzer, no tacho.

I had the exact same problem last year and as part of my engine wiring update in the last month, decided to address this problem. Having read loads of posts on different web sites the general consensus is to replace the feed wire from the ignition switch to the starter solenoid from the normal original supplied gauge wire to 10AWG wire. That is the white wire from the back of theignition switch to the starter solenoid which is on the side of the solenoid, and also the red positive feed wire to the solenoid from the ignition switch.

Can’t find the link to the article at the moment but if you decide to do it will try and look it out. Having done this, the engine starts first time every time , no problems.

This is assuming that you don't have a problem with the starter motor? I thought for the sake of a few quid on wire, it was worth a go and has now solved the problem.

I also had to re-instate the 30A inline fuse in the red wire for the upgraded 10AWG wire gauge.

Found the link to one of the articles http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f54/starter-button-on-yanmar-gauge-cluster-20150.html if anyone is interested. check out post 3 and post 12. lots of comments!

Also found the other one with photos http://tartan3500.com/uploads/3/1/1/9/3119926/starter_wiring.pdf

Must admit it worked for me - hope it works for others? - Philip

 

[pampas]

Further to my original post.

remove clean the main engine earth bolt also the battery connection then check to see if you have battery voltage on the thin start wire at the starter (With it disconnected)

 

[blackbeard]

Should have added.
Easy enough to check whether you have any resistance in either the starter switch (when pushed) or the "ignition" switch, using a multimeter. (In both cases with the 12v electrics firmly switched off, of course. In any case, you do not want the engine to turn over while you are doing this.) Do this measurement several times as the resistance might not be the same each time.
Have a look at the little lights on the panel as you try to start the engine. If these dim a lot when you press the start switch, even if the starter motor doesn't turn, all is not well and you have some unwanted resistance in the circuit. (They will dim a bit, of course, if the engine does start, as the starter motor will take a lot out of the batteries). (This assumes the problem isn't in the starter motor.)
Enjoy.
I suspect I might have taken the easy way out and added a relay plus some thicker wiring, but it goes against the grain to add bits to fix a problem which shouldn't have been there in the first place.

 

[Dave May]

OK, this contribution is 5 years late! But I had this problem too (3GMD). It seems to me that it is unlikely that the Japanese would release an engine electrical package that was flawed by having inadequate solenoid leads . Now the thing that they don't have direct control over is the installation; in particular, the connecting leads from the battery to the starter motor. I did some sums for my boat (my theory at the time was that I was maybe losing too much power in the leads). I found to my surprise that my leads had a combined length of 3 metres. And although they seemed chunky enough, I worked out that the total resistance along the lengths was 0.003 ohms. Which is nearly zero, right? Well, my starter battery is rated at 500 cold cranking amps (and the maximum current is always supplied when the motor is about to begin turning). 500 amps along 0.003 ohms loses 750 watts! And would give a 1.5V drop along the leads. OK, so I replaced them with a set of 70mm2 leads made up with 6mm, 8mm and 10mm terminals as appropriate by a guy on eBay. And - not immediately but pretty soon- the problem went away. My theory at the moment is that, if the voltage drops just as the solenoid connects, the connection is less 'positive' and the contacts can coke up.


Anyway, at the moment the starter connects first time- and the engine turns over a lot faster.

 

[vyv_cox]

It seems to me that it is unlikely that the Japanese would release an engine electrical package that was flawed by having inadequate solenoid leads . .

Not the case. My Yanmar wiring loom, nothing to do with the installer, has four connectors between the switch and the solenoid. Some of these are multi-pin plugs that are very difficult to access. Since I wrote my contribution to this thread in 2013 (#14) I have bypassed the lot with a single wire from the switch to the solenoid. This has completely eliminated the problem over the past two or three years.

 

[Mikedefieslife]

In my case heavier gauge wiring didn't solve the issue. A relay before the solenoid didn't solve the problem. A new starter solved the problem for like the first one or two starts, then it was back to the same issue.

The solenoid on the new starter ended up dying, so I now I'm just starting by using a switch on the runs from the starter to the battery. The starter spins up powerfully every time. Unfortunately without the solenoid I have to put the engine into gear to get the starter to catch.